ACTA: Battlestar Galactica - Some input please...

Right... I am going to make a number of small tweaks to the rules now and upload a new draft.

Again, every change I make will be highlighted in red or in red text.
 
just a quick thought about the point deffence "fire back" ability:

maybe the pont defence system should fire at fighters attacking the ship before they resolve their attacks but have the week trait.
 
I honestly think that as it stands, the PDW do not need the ability to shoot at fighters. I had the tools to deal with the fighters as it was. I think I just made some mistakes in targeting the Basestars and not clearing the Heavy Raiders First.

If they were going to stay in the rules they would stay as they are now, but I really don't think they are needed. Also this cuts out on the number of "Works like X with the following differences" rules which can clog everything up.

The new draft...

 
you missed one of the refrences to "Beam" in the Valkirie's stat block

and the raptors and Heavy raiders still ahve damage 2 (is this intentional or an oversight?)
 
Commador Q said:
you missed one of the refrences to "Beam" in the Valkirie's stat block

and the raptors and Heavy raiders still ahve damage 2 (is this intentional or an oversight?)

Oversight... I'll get it sorted... need sleep... :wink:

[EDIT] Fixed silly mistakes and uploaded the ship-iewer we have been using in our games. LINK
 
It's looking really good - didn't realise that the Valkyrie was missiles only, but still, it makes a nice alternative to put in there, and a real damage dealer.

Under the Point Defense entry, I would state that 'Point Defense works identically to Interceptors, but may only be used against fighters and missiles'.

Advanced targetting needs a bit of clarification - does it damage like a beam, split fire like a beam? I don't quite get how it's currently worded.

Regarding Commador's take on nukes - I don't think they should be given the E-mine trait. It encourages Cylons to use Raiders to nuke squadrons of Vipers - something we never see them do. In addition, the nuclear missiles seem slow enough for vipers to dodge! I would recommend giving each Raider Wave/Basestar/Battlestar a set number of nukes. Or possibly a set number for each ship which they can allocate amongs their fighters etc. as they like.
At any point in the game they can sacrifice an AD from a missile launcher in order to launch nukes (so yes, you could launch a massive salvo from a basestar in round 1 - then be without them!), or sneak 2 onto each wave of Raiders, or onto Raptors. These nukes are then like fighter flights when fired, with a poor dodge but high speed (15), and 1/45 turns (so it may be possible to get out of their way or intercept if they're fired from long range, for instance).
 
Alexb83 said:
Under the Point Defense entry, I would state that 'Point Defense works identically to Interceptors, but may only be used against fighters and missiles'.

Not sure this is neccessary, since the Cylons don't have anything other than fighters or missiles...
Plus Raiders that act as PD can stop Railgun fire, by flying into it...

Loosing the ability to shoot down fighters with PD :? , wasn't sure about this until I saw the new gun layouts on the battlestars, don't think with Viper support their defenseless against fighters...

The Valkyrie may be a little more vulnerable though... (as for being missile only, we don't really know, never get much of a look at its capabilities, I Court Jester is working off the fact that the missile appeared to be fired from a turret rather a than a vertical launch tube like Galactica's)


Nick
 
Each flight of raiders has 12AD of chainguns - needless to say this shouldn't be draining the point defences, as bullets aren't really interceptable.

The Valkyrie benefits from a turreted arc, but not many AD on it...
 
I look at that as putting the fighters off their attack runs so that they don't hit anything...

Although as you say a single wave of Raiders is going to drain the PD quite effectively...

Nick
 
Great write up of what was a lot of fun.

I'm keen to have another go at this, but it will have to wait til after the WFB GT finals. I haven't played much since heat 2, so I'd better get some practice in.
 
Lookign through the rules I am left wonderign what roel there is for the Raptor Scout?

Seriosly--is it there only to redirect the fire from the missles on the battlestar and maybe the Heavy battery? Or are you modifying the rules to allow it to redirect fire from auxilary craft like raptors and vipers?

Not having played your variation yet (thanks to a bad month at work) it seems that allowignt eh Aux scout to redirect the fire from Aux craft would be sufficient to give them a valuabel place in the fleet.
 
Alexb83 said:
It's looking really good - didn't realise that the Valkyrie was missiles only, but still, it makes a nice alternative to put in there, and a real damage dealer.

Although now I have looked over this ship its missiles do seem rather weak.

Alexb83 said:
Under the Point Defense entry, I would state that 'Point Defense works identically to Interceptors, but may only be used against fighters and missiles'.
Alexb83 said:
This I think will be clarrified when the rules are expanded to contain the fluff and story bits. As it stands the PD put out a field of flak that the fighters have to fly through to reach the ship. Each hit that the PD stop represents fighters being driven off by the explosions, damaged or even destroyed. When it comes to missles and larger ordinance this can represent the shells being destroyed before reaching the target or their guidance being effected by the flak.

Alexb83 said:
Advanced targetting needs a bit of clarification - does it damage like a beam, split fire like a beam? I don't quite get how it's currently worded.

Advanced Targeting follows all the same rules for Beam. However, weapons with Advanced Targeting are not "Beam Weapons" for the pruposes of other rules, for example Interceptors/Point Defences can stop attackes from weapons with Advanced Targeting.
 
captainsmirk said:
Loosing the ability to shoot down fighters with PD :? , wasn't sure about this until I saw the new gun layouts on the battlestars, don't think with Viper support their defenseless against fighters...

They far from defenceless...

captainsmirk said:
The Valkyrie may be a little more vulnerable though... (as for being missile only, we don't really know, never get much of a look at its capabilities, I Court Jester is working off the fact that the missile appeared to be fired from a turret rather a than a vertical launch tube like Galactica's)

Essentially I am just making this one up. The only things we know is that she is smaller than the other two Battlestars, she has different looking turrets, one of which is on her flight pod, and these turrets fire missiles as well as possible normal ordinance.

I will wait to see what the Ravenstar model looks like, and build the stats according to what he has put on the model. And who knows, maybe the Hasbro Titanium Series will release a model that will give better clues.
 
captainsmirk said:
Although as you say a single wave of Raiders is going to drain the PD quite effectively...

12 AD and 2 AD of missiles against armour 6 and a possible PD score of 5? will do little to nothing. You need really 2-3 Waves or Heavy Raiders to be certain of stripping the PD.

I am thinking that 6AD twin linked and and 4 AD of Missiles might be a touch excessive... but I will play more games before making my mind up.
 
Enalut said:
Seriosly--is it there only to redirect the fire from the missles on the battlestar and maybe the Heavy battery? Or are you modifying the rules to allow it to redirect fire from auxilary craft like raptors and vipers?

Not having played your variation yet (thanks to a bad month at work) it seems that allowignt eh Aux scout to redirect the fire from Aux craft would be sufficient to give them a valuabel place in the fleet.

Agreed, I had pondered thier usefulness. But this makes sense. Thank you.
 
Alexb83 said:
Regarding Commador's take on nukes - I don't think they should be given the E-mine trait. It encourages Cylons to use Raiders to nuke squadrons of Vipers - something we never see them do. In addition, the nuclear missiles seem slow enough for vipers to dodge!

the reason for the E-mine trate is mainly to give the nuke a blast radias (as they definatrely should have one).

the important part of my sugestion is having the nuke count as a fighter and beiung suceptable to dogfights, but the more i think about it the more i think there needs to be a slightly different approach:

perhaps something like this:
Special Action "Arm Nuclear Warheads" CQ: automatic
The ship performing this special action may fire any number of it's weapons with the "Nuclear Weapon" trate in nuclear mode. The weapon losses all other traites and gain the following: Super AP, Twin Linked, Quad Damage, Precise, Slow Loading. A Nuclear weapon may be intercepted by fighters that are supporting the target. If any hits are scored on the target (after aplying PD if aplicable), and the target has any supporting fighters each flight may role 1d6 for each remaining hit, on a 6 the hit is intercepted and has no effect. If one or more hits makes it through the target's defences, place a 3inch template centered on the target ship. All ships within this radius (including the target ship) take 2 undodgable Double damage attack dice.

The reason for the special action is to give the feal of the "Radiologic alarms" going off on all the enemy ships when the nuke are armed. This way when the enemy arms nukes you can choose to clear out your fighters (and rely on your PD to save you) or try to move them to intercept (putting additional fleet reasorces at risk if the nuke gets through your PD and your fighters).



One other thing:
The more i think about it the more the number of raptor on each battlestar just doen't sit right. In the series we see raptors used either one or 2 at a time as recon ships or in groups of 6+ with only raptors participating in the mission. Maybe it would better capture the feal of the raptor if they were present in fewer numbers onboard the battlestars but could be purchassed as independednt craft. I'm thinking primarily if this mod were used with the campaigne rules where auxilery craft can't be seperated from their mothership to participate in a battle by themselves, but a colonial player only has limited options for those dreded less than war level scenarios.

What i'd sugest: Acropolise and Valkyrie each carry 2 Raptors, Mercury carries 4 raptors, and additional raptors can be brought along as independed craft. Also remember that since all battlestars have fleet carrier their raptors are eligable for recovery and re launch if they get destroied.

It just seems odd to me that a battlestar can field more tokens worth of raptors than it can vipers. and that an Acropolise can spend 3 full turns launching nothing but raptors (admitedly it's only 2 full turns if you use scrable scramble, but still).

One last sugestion:
Allow the colonials access to the Armed civilian transport (Raiders fleet list), but concider allowing it to carry a squadren of vipers. However the vipers don't come free with it so they have to be bought as an independeant wing or be transfered from a battlestar, like the Shadows fighters in SFOS. This allows a level of trickeroy on the part of the colonials that might let them outmanuver the cylons in spite of the cylon initiative bonus. After all untill you launch every viper you have the cylons never know for sure if that otherwise under armed civi ship is really a trojan horse. And viper counting becomes even more dificult if one or more squadren has been destroied and reformed by the fleet carrier trait.
 
Commador Q said:
the reason for the E-mine trate is mainly to give the nuke a blast radias (as they definatrely should have one).

Why?

The blast of a nuclear bomb requires a medium to travel through (i.e. air), in space there is no medium. It would generate a lot of radiation (as shown in the show by the flash of light and the Cylons detecting the blast on Cloud 9). The nukes in the show are all shown doing damage through impacting on the target not by creating a blast zone.


Nick
 
Why?

The blast of a nuclear bomb requires a medium to travel through (i.e. air), in space there is no medium. It would generate a lot of radiation (as shown in the show by the flash of light and the Cylons detecting the blast on Cloud 9). The nukes in the show are all shown doing damage through impacting on the target not by creating a blast zone.

while i agree with you on a sceintific basis, i disagree with regards to refrence to the series.

in the miniseries the cylons use 2 raiders with an indeterminate number of nukes to destroy all the non-jump capable civi ships. additionally when starbuck fails to destroy one of the nukes that's inbound towards galactica, all the viper break to get out of range. furthermore, in "hand of god" starbuck coments that one nuke would destroy the enteire refinery base, and in "33" the civi ship with a nuke on it is presumed to be threat to the fleet even though it would have no way of launching the nuke. all these things imply some level of a blast radius IMO.

whether it's purely radiation damage or actual concussive force, i think it's implied that nukes can affect a reasonable area in the BSG universe. plus good sceince or not, it's definately good gameplay to have some form of blast radius effect and i think more people would expect there to be a blast radius than would expect there not to be one.
 
Well - there are a few strange inaccuracies to the use of nukes in the series; in the Miniseries, reference is made to the use of 'thermonuclear weapons' against the colonies - or Hydrogen bombs.

The use of a hydrogen bomb in a vacuum is highly questionable given the lack of fusion fuel present out there in the big black nothing - of course it's entirely possible they have nukes highly analagous to our own, which means they can carry a form of fusion fuel inside the warhead. Still, due to the lack of surrounding fuel, it's likely that the area of effect would be far smaller and more concentrated around 'ground zero'

In any case, given the small scale of the explosion that his Galactica, it's much more likely they were employing tactical fission weapons (the much more throwaway kiloton range device). I'd infer from the way that Tigh and Adama discuss the 'heavy stuff' - (radiation) - that they're talking about this far dirtier type of weapon than the -relatively- clean H-bomb.
 
Erm... what?

Fusion weapons do NOT use fuel from the surrounding area. Their fusable material is entierly contained within the weapon. The only effect surrounding material has in terms of fuel is in terms of secondary fires.

And hydrogen bombs are far from 'clean'. Hydrogen fusion does not produce heavy alpah and beta radiation but it does still produce a massive gamma radiation burst. However many fusion bombs use fission bombs as part of their trigger mechanism thus producing every bit as much nasty crappy fallout as a fission weapon.

Now in vacuum there would NOT be the concussive shock wave you get in an atmosphere but there would still be a signinigant are within which the heat and radiation (and the gamma burst would in fact cover a LARGER area in space) would be pretty damn fatal for anthing within it. Also there most certainly WOULD be concussive force on the target if the nuke actually went off in contact with it!

As for the Cylons using fission weapons that seems to me a bit dubious. Just because with OUR current technology we cant make smaller fusion bombs doesnt mean they cant (and fusion is far more efficient and doenst require much harder to obtain rarer materiels like uranium).

All of this is kind of irrelevant though as BSG hardly takes the worlds most realistic approach to many thigns though. For starters you would think that a STARSHIP desigend to spend years on end in space exposed to cosmic radiation would have some kind of radiation (certainly enough to stop heavy radiation like alpah and beta) anyway! You would definitely expect a MILITARY ship with tons of armour plating too and in a civilistation that knows full well nuclear weapons are likely to be used in any battles fought would DEFINITELY be radiation shielded. But hey ho, its only a TV show :P
 
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