Above average people of the Hyborian Age

[Supplement Four]

I've been looking at a lot of NPCs lately, and I've noticed one thing: Stats are almost always above average, whether we're talking about a PC or some bartering merchant NPC in the bazaar.

Looking through a lot of the Conan books, I see NPCs with arrays, many times with 15 as the highest stat and 8 as the lowest stat--but only the 8 has a negative modifier.

If 10 is an average or median human, then a 15 STR should be as common as a 5 STR. But, we all know that we see a lot more 15's than we do 5's. We hardly ever see a stat below 8.

How many of you have PC's and NPCs that have all positive modifiers?

Do you always create a PC or NPC with stats 10+? If so, why?

 

[Spectator]

I guess the weak didn't make it past childhood.
Seriously, though in a lot of scientific studies done on recovered corpses in northern europe whether it was the bog-men the celts sacrificed and the tannic acids preserved their bodies or the Otzi Glacier Man, the bodies were these guys (physical stats) were all pretty impressive.

Modern medicine is a bane to a strong gene pool.

 

[Supplement Four]

I attempt a variety of differant NPC power types, I know others think rolling dice is tiring, but I love creating characters and see what dice allow for me to create,

I do, too. I love to see what the dice "say" about the NPC.

In my group, I've got two players. Conan is a perfect game for one or two players, unlike D&D, which requires a party. In fact, I think one or two players matches the Hyborian atmosphere better than a bunch of mis-matched character types.

So, of course, both of my PCs are 1st level Cimmerian Barbarians, having just started my campaign.

Caelis
STR 19
DEX 9
CON 13
INT 12
WIS 7
CHR 6

I had the players roll the PCs the old fashioned way--by the book. We rolled 4d6, drop lowest, arrange to taste (then slap on race modifiers).

Thrallan
STR 16
DEX 13
CON 13
INT 10
WIS 12
CHR 10

I like how the default method of rolling characters can make a character strong on some areas and weak in others (as with Caelis). The player playing Thrallan feels damn good about his rolls--he didn't roll anything that would give him a negative modifier. Statistically, he rolled very well.

Most of my NPCs, I'm rolling straight 3d6 for stats, and may arrange to taste depending on what I need the NPC to be. That way, the players will have superior stats--slightly--over the NPCs, and they'll see the NPCs have negatives on some of their skill throws.

I've been collecting as many NPCs as I can from the threads, from Vincent and such, to save me time. Those stat blocks are like gold. But, I've noticed that all those NPCs that I'm collecting--they're like heroes compared my normal NPCs because their stats are so good.

In my game, I'm trying to keep the average human to a Stat 10 or 11, while the PCs are a hair above that.

 

[VincentDarlage]

The standard d20 arrays are what I use.

Elite Array 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8
Non-Elite Array 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8
Standard Array 11, 11, 10, 10, 10, 10

I usually only use the standard array for commoners.

Anyone "uncommon" enough to have a PC class uses either the non-elite or elite array.

My PCs use the Heroic method of generating stats (8+1d10) because my group likes to play heroes, not average joes - they do that in real life. Robert E. Howard wrote of larger-than-life heroes... my players want the same type of larger-than-life hero REH wrote of. They want the "Conan" experience, so to speak. YMMV.

Anyway, since my NPCs are on Word documents, it shouldn't be too hard for you to find the NPCs you want, and then knock down their stats if those are too much for you.

 

[Supplement Four]

The standard d20 arrays are what I use.

Elite Array 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8
Non-Elite Array 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8
Standard Array 11, 11, 10, 10, 10, 10

Out of curiosity, where do these standard arrays come from? Are they in the D&D DMG or something?

The standard one looks good--straight average dude. The other two look good, too. I'd like one more that dips a little lower--a second "Standard" array that. Guess I could make one up.

 

[Clovenhoof]

Whoa S4, your Caelis player can really bite his own arse that he didn't roll his Int or Cha one single point lower... because then his total Modifier sum would come out at 0 and he'd be entitled to a re-roll.

Actually, this is a prime example why random character generation is so crappy. Just two PCs, and already they are worlds apart in power level. One has a +6 modifier total, the other a +1, without any chance of ever catching up and even if you played 20 levels. I can only wish the player an early character death and may the dice gods smile on him next time. Well, with that Dodge penalty he is getting that shouldn't take too long.

For PC generation, we use a 30 or 32 point buy, as per the DMG rules. For comparison, the so-called "Elite" array equals a 25 point buy.

The method works like this:
All stats start at 8. You can increase them for 1 buy point (bp) per ability point (ap) up to a score of 14 (so 14 costs 6 points). Increasing to 15 and 16 costs 2 bp each, 17 and 18 3 points each. So a score of 18 costs 16 buy points.
Racial modifiers are applied _afterwards_, so by thoughtful score assignment, you can effectively gain an advantage worth 4 to 6 buy points.

For NPCs... well, I just put in whatever seems reasonable without bothering about generation methods.
10-11 is supposed to be the average, yes. So I reckon that mostly girls and women will have the Str 6-9 scores, so there will be no shortage of men with Str 12-15 without disrupting the median distribution. For Int and Wis, I guess there will be rather a lot of proles with scores of 8, but go much lower than that and you get an imbecile. Anyway, the masses of Int-8 balance out the elite with Int 12-18. Pretty much like in our days, really.

 

[VincentDarlage]

Out of curiosity, where do these standard arrays come from? Are they in the D&D DMG or something?

DMG and Monster Manual. The NPCs in the DMG all use the elite array.

 

[Clovenhoof]

reason why I hate it is because the put others in the group at risk, the othe Player are relying on their support and they take it away from them!

Actually that's precisely the reason why I hate having weak characters in the group, no matter if I would have to play one, or a fellow player had one, or if I was GMing. Weak characters - such as Caelis in S4's game - just can't pull their weight. The other players are relying on their support and they just can't deliver. I've seen enough parties fail and getting wiped because of one weak link in the chain that didn't do its job when it counted.

So you know the phenomenon of players getting to hate their character? Then maybe you should ask yourself why they do. And whether it's really necessary to make them play a character they hate. I'll give you a hint: it's not. It's a game. The point of a game is to have fun. If a player isn't having fun with his character, let him play another one. I don't know what's so difficult about that.

 

[Jotenbjorn]

For "normal" people I roll 5d6 and discard both the highest and lowest die. This creates a very steep bell curve.

 

[Supplement Four]

Whoa S4, your Caelis player can really bite his own arse that he didn't roll his Int or Cha one single point lower... because then his total Modifier sum would come out at 0 and he'd be entitled to a re-roll.

I didn't see that rule in the books anywhere...where'd you get that?

And, don't forget that Caelis stats are after the +2 STR and -2 INT racial mods for a Cimmerian.

Actually, this is a prime example why random character generation is so crappy.

I totally disagree. As with the case of Caelis, he's got some true strengths and areas where he ain't so good.

He's a face-to-face fighter. He won't dodge like many Barbarains will. He'll parry, and he'll probably be the type to put on a little armor rather than run around in a loin cloth and little else.

The DEX 9 is by design--this character won't do a lot of the things covered by DEX. He took Improved Initiative as one of his two Feats to overcome his deficit here.

And, he's a weaponsmith by trade.

So, for what he does, he's not a bad character at all.

Just two PCs, and already they are worlds apart in power level. One has a +6 modifier total, the other a +1, without any chance of ever catching up and even if you played 20 levels.

It's not supposed to be a game where everybody gets a cookie. It's about individuals. Roleplaying individuals.

I can only wish the player an early character death and may the dice gods smile on him next time. Well, with that Dodge penalty he is getting that shouldn't take too long.

Bite your tongue! Caelis has a lot of "character" already. We've got a lot of work put into him.

And, as I said, since the players arranged stats to taste, the DEX 9 was by design. He's a character that will parry, not Dodge.


I looked the table, and it doesn't look like his Dodge bonus will ever be higher than his parry bonus, if you count in the STR increases starting at 6th.

So, give this guy a two-handed weapons and some leather armor, and he'll be an ass-kicker.

For PC generation, we use a 30 or 32 point buy, as per the DMG rules. For comparison, the so-called "Elite" array equals a 25 point buy.

I would never use point buy in a game like this. Why? Well, you don't get characters like Caelis. I think that's a bad thing. I do understand that you've got a different opinion--just different strokes.

I look at Caelis as an interesting character. You see him as weak because he's got half his stats with negative modifiers.

I like having the game centered on more average stats than having every character with a minimum of 10 so that there is no negative modifier.

Some people just aren't good at some things--as in real life. But, they excel in others. Caelis is a prime example.

 

[Supplement Four]

Weak characters - such as Caelis in S4's game - just can't pull their weight.

How do you figure? Caelis is a better fighter than Thrallan, especially if he goes to STR 20 at 4th level.

Caelis is +5 Initiative. (Improved Nish Feat)
Thrallan is +3 Initiative.

Caelis is +4 attack, damage, and AP.
Thrallan is +3 attack, damage, and AP.

Both characters have 11 hit points.

Caelis' Parry is 14. (Caelis' Parry will always be better than his Dodge).
Thrallan's Parry is 13. (But, Thrallan's Dodge will improve later on.)

 

[Clovenhoof]

Well, for example, with 30 point buy you could make a Cimmerian Barbarian with scores like (racial mod included): Str 17, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 10. I think those were pretty much the stats I started my last character with.
And allowing 32 point buy you could for instance bump Con up to 14, too.

Either way, "Heroic game" means for me the characters don't need to have, and shouldn't have, negative ability modifiers at all. (*)

I know how D&D characters can really get out of hand, there are so many ways of crunching them into invincible combat monsters... I agree, very hard to DM for such characters.
That's the great advantage of the Conan system, being so low magic, the characters remain quite manageable at all times. So as a GM you can be relaxed and allow the PCs to start strong and develop freely.

Anyway, time for bed. More later. ^^

 

[Supplement Four]

Well, I'm quite happy with my two PCs. The players are putting a lot of "character" into them. I just, tonight, had dinner with the player of the Thrallan character, and I like the direction he's going to go with his character. It's totally opposite of what Caelis' player is going to do.

The player for Caelis is going the traditional Cimmerian route with an in-your-face fighter.

The player for Thrallan wants to be a "thinker", an early adopter of new ways--someone who will at least consider something new where as the player for Caelis will have that character say, "That's not the way we've done it in the past."

Thrallan's player gave me an example: Where Caelis will just bellow out a war cry and charge his enemy, face-to-face, in the traditional Cimmerian scare-the-crap-out-of-them manner, the player for Thrallan wants to have Thrallan be quite, intense, someone who will burst into action on a moment's notice. Where Caelis will approach straight on, Thrallan might run at his enemy, then lay down in a slide, docking his enemy from his feet, downing him, getting advantage on him, and hopefully killing him.

These are two very different approaches.

No matter the stats, after all, it really just comes down to the players.