A New Universe for ACTA's

[Ben2]

Well, I didn't go for Knobbly Armada, but as a long-time SFB and Federation Commander player I'm *very* interested in this.

That Rob Glass is involved with the new minis is very good news - his work on the old B5 range was outstanding.

He is in charge of manufacturing the noble armada ships.

The noble armada ships are done using the same process as the B5 Fleet Action ships.

I wouldn't mind a scale change like the old 2200 ships, as it meant gigantic fleets were possible on the table (not that you could play really big games in SFB) and you could use the big hex maps.

The key question is what will the price point be for the ships? At the moment they are pretty pricey.

 

[godsgopher]

From the SFB Blog site...

((Every existing Starline 2400 ship will be replaced with a new computer-generated design. (We call this Starline 2500, but they plan to market it under another brand yet to be selected.) The first ships will appear in late 2011, and ships will then follow every month or two. This will include some entirely new ships as we move forward. Ships will have a lot more detail and many known problems with existing designs will be solved by Mongoose's expert model designers. These new production ships will be fancier and a little bigger (in 1:3125 scale) and made from resin by Mongoose's first-rate team.))

 

[SteveCole]

The starline 2200 ships, the starline 2300 ships, and the starline 2400 ships were all the same scale (1/3788, caused by Lou Zocchi who told the very first sculptor: "Make the Enterprise three inches long."

The starline 2500s will be bigger. Matthew told me that the saucer is 40mm instead of 33mm, which my calculator said made them 1/3125.

BY THE WAY, I will be leaving Monday the 20th for Origins and won't be back here until the 28th or 29th. It's possible I won't be here again before the 20th, meaning, before the 29th. Kinda busy getting ready for Origins.

 

[Apep]

I am quite interested to see how this progresses - Always been interested in SFB and Federation Commander (support for ADB products in my local area is quite limited) - but would like to see some more details on proposed releases before jumping onto the new system.

Any chance of including rules for custom ships, or packs where you could by using standard components come up with your own custom designs?

Did meet a guy at a model show who built custom federation ships for SFB (for his own use only) back in the late 90’s - but the time taken to sculpt and cast was prohibitive.

Some of them were very Movie / TNG like.

 

[godsgopher]

Star Fleet Battles is an amazing setting there is no doubt about that. I think its biggest limiting factor is that until the deployment of Federation Commander it was pretty much just the province of the Extreme Hardcore board Gamer crowd. And in this age of computer games and instant gratification that kind of gamer is much rarer than it once was.

I think if Mongoose can successfully translate the "spirit" of SFBU to their system its going to be a huge success. The new models will be good, I have no doubts about that. So its just going to be a matter of sucking people into the setting. And peoples willingness to enjoy ACTA's for what it is, a fast yet dramatic game system of spaceship combat.

 

[SteveCole]

A possible example of this is STARMADA. Under a deal with them, we have been printing SFU versions of Starmada for a couple of years. The guys who like starmada always wanted to play trekky things with it, and have been doing that for a while, and it works nicely for them. Starmada is very similar in scope/style of ACTA.

What is different is that if ADB is a 10, Starmada is a 3 and Mongoose is an 87.

Those numbers are not just a reflection of relative size, but the percentage of retailers that carry the system.

When we did FC, the retailers didn't even notice. Why? Because there are 10 really big companies (Mongoose, Steve Jackson, and that bunch) and 40 the size of ADB. Retailers stock the store with the top ten, and then each retailer picks 2 or 3 of the other 40 to stock. It's VERY hard to break out of that pack because even thought FC was a major hit and just what the stores wanted (and organized to maximize retailer profit), most of them never even saw it, let alone considered it. With 40 companies saying "Mister retailer, please carry MY game" it's just the "babble of the rabble".

What made me want a deal with Mongoose (or anybody their size, they were the one who came calling after I spent five years telling all of the top ten that I had something worth doing a deal to get) was because a deal with Mongoose means that there will be a book, with ADB logos (and Mongoose logos) and with pages of ADB advertising in 87 percent of stores (not the 10% I'm in now). Exposing ADB to that many new customers will do marvellous things for my company. We do a LOT of things besides SFB but most people are not aware of them. They hear ADB and think SFB and don't even think a second time, or take a look to see.

 

[Ben2]

Yeah, even though the SFB universe is a snapshot and misses the last 4 series, getting it in stores with nice minis and a good price point is almost a licence to print money.

At any price I'll probably get a fleet. At a good price point I'll get all the major races.

Question about the licence - in SFC the NCL design used the Miranda hull and the F5 used the BoP hull. Would Mongoose be able to use that for the minis or produce Miranda and BoP models?

Because D7s plus BoPs? I'd buy a ton of them.

Mirandas and Constitution class? WRATH OF KHAN!!!

I also noted they'd be in resin. I think Finecast serves as a warning to how poor quality control can poison the well on resin minis, but I know metal prices are continuing to rise.

 

[godsgopher]

Yes I'm curious myself about the quality of resin models. I know Mongoose does go to some lengths to maintain high quality, however I don't know much about resin other than its what all the "Forgeworld" stuff was made from and cost your first born child. How difficult is it to work with? I know we abandoned lead after we discovered our mini's were killing us Now white metal is killing our wallets.

 

[katadder]

well firestorm armada ships are resin and these are fine models. very nicely detailed and sturdy, not like GW finecast

 

[Stormrider]

I think I'll take some convincing.

I'm not taken with the idea of the ships being BIGGER, I never really like the B5 wars scale ships, felt like an excuse to sell more metal for no real gain.

The other problem mongoose may come across is that there are lots of other companies out there producing star trek themed ships, and probably cheaper. Being a larger, more popular franchise it's open to huge competition and will have to compete on both cost and quality. Sorry to say that based on the Noble Armada ships, unless the level of detail/attention to detail improves greatly, the cost had better be the selling point.

Also, I know the hands are tied by the license, but I think the time period may well not be the most marketable. I know for sure that my first thoughts were to the grand scenarios and races available in the likes of DS9. Maybe I'm too young or not enough of a purist (I wanted to use another word but..) but for me the original series goes the same way as Voyager, it irritates the living bejesus out of me.

Or maybe I'm just really hard to please?

 

[Apep]

Or maybe I'm just really hard to please?

Probably…. But we all have our own expectations, ….. :lol:

My understanding, (correct me if I am wrong) is that the scope of ADB licence is very limited. This means that ships from the Movies, DS9, Voyager and Enterprise period are out of reach.

WizKids Games have the current licence for some of the later elements of the franchise. –

However the ADD Star Trek universe seems very flexible within their scope and there are some fan ships and “SFB other rules” out there.

Please note that many companies have attempted to make games outs of the Star Trek franchise only to have the license expire or pulled away by Paramount (Last Unicorn Games, Decipher,…..) leaving gamers in the “lurch”.

(FASA did have a good go at the Movie period in the late 80’s and the ships and games can still be found)

While I would love ADB and Mongoose to create a game covering later elements of the franchise the cost and time of jumping though Paramount’s hoops would kill the game and possibly both companies.

 

[godsgopher]

Star Fleet Battles honestly isn't Star Trek, its more like the newest movie. Its an alternate timeline and gets away with what it is because the game was made back in the 70's. So it predates much of the current copy right rules. The Kzinti are an exception example, that belongs to Larry Niven who writes about them in his Man-Kzin wars.

But here is the thing to be mindful of. SFBU is a very very old license, its not going to get yanked unless something truly awful happens between Mongoose and ADB . This game has been around for 30 years, its got an unbelievable amount of story behind it. The number of starships for the Federation alone is absolutely staggering! There is far more flexibility in this license than you would ever ever see in a Paramount one.

Now for those of you who absolutely can't live without your "modern" Star Trek ships

(Looks Left)

(Looks Right)

...Use the rules and make your own "unofficial" versions. Then get some mini's and have fun. ACTA's is a rule system after all.

 

[SteveCole]

Miranda and bird of prey are not within SFU.

The term SFBU is really incorrect, and I have never seen it anywhere but here. SFU is the correct term.

 

[Da Boss]

The Kzinti are an exception example, that belongs to Larry Niven who writes about them in his Man-Kzin wars.

Now for those of you who absolutely can't live without your "modern" Star Trek ships

(Looks Left)

(Looks Right)

...Use the rules and make your own "unofficial" versions. Then get some mini's and have fun. ACTA's is a rule system after all.

Too true, too true - has no one done that for SFB?

re the Kzinti -a re they the same as in the Laryy Niven books and di anyhting else come over - I always thought the puppeteers were fun

 

[Nerroth]

They are not the same; the Kzintis (it goes Kzinti/Kzintis, not Kzin/Kzinti) in the Star Fleet Universe have cat ears, no tails, and sentient females.

Indeed, in the SFU, they have a number of genetically related species as mortal rivals; most notably the Lyrans, one of the earliest "new" species to be added to the setting by ADB.

Best not suggest that topic in front of either a Kzinti or a Lyran if you value your continued existence, though.

 

[Apep]

Miranda and bird of prey are not within SFU.

The term SFBU is really incorrect, and I have never seen it anywhere but here. SFU is the correct term.

I think maybe a “SFU for Dummies” is called for,

I have been interested in the SFU games since 1995 but the support in the local area was very limited so never had the opportunity to delve fully into this universe (I have Prime Directive D20 somewhere).

 

[Nerroth]

Would this help?

 

[Rick]

I am rather looking forward to this - I played SFB years ago, then FASA's STCS and have been looking around for a good set of ST rules. Personally, I don't think it matters too much whether it's TOS, TNG, Movies era - Trek games should have a certain 'feel' to them all of their own; the differences between a Connie and Miranda in the TOS/Movie era should be very similiar to the differences between a Galaxy and a Nebula in TNG - so, it it feels more comfortable, get different ship models and rename the ship classes!

As to the size, several different manufacturers have all made different sized Trek ships, supposedly in roughly the same scale - doing the ships about 30% larger doesn't bother me too much (I even managed to use the 1/1600 scale ships for games when that's all I could find) - what I am concerned about is price, quality and ruggedness of the new models. Unless you mix a small amount of acetone in with the resin (GW Finescale), it's going to be fairly brittle and the fine struts in Trek aren't going to be able to take much abuse.

 

[MikeB]

These URLs might be helpful for those who want a look at the Starfleet Universe:


www.starfleetgames.com/historicaldownloads.shtml

www.starfleetgames.com/documents/Timeline.pdf

www.starfleetgames.com/sfb/sfin/general_war.htm

 

[godsgopher]

Personal I'm looking forward to the Lyrans. Their a feudal society and long time ally of the Klingons. they favor Disruptors' and posses the unique Expanding Sphere Generator. Plus they have many interesting and unique ships.

Really that's another thing about the SFU (See I said it right Steve), there are plenty of unique and interesting races not just counting the major races.

Major Races: Federation, Klingons, Gorn, Romulans, Kzintis
Minor Races: Tholians, Lyrans, Hydran, Orions, Seltorians
Minor Factions: WYN, Lyran Democratic Republic, Neo-Tholians, Orion Cartel's
Extra-Galactic Invaders: Andromeda's

Not to mention Civil Wars, Clan Wars, Famous Fleets, and Legendary Captains! whew! but wait there's more! there are hundreds of ship types, thousands of variants! fighters, Marines, PF's! and Starbases! so act now!

Sorry no refunds for Tribble infestations. Voids are prohibited.