A merging of b5wars and acta?
- Thread starter blackphoenix
- Start date
Reaverman said:
That's really not a problem in practice. I keep seeing this one trotted out, but when, in practice do you need turns less than 60 degrees, especially in ACtA when your arcs of fire are 90 degrees in general?
The only thing I can think of is Boresite but then under a hex system you widen that to a 60 degree cone anyway (and why not, that's what the arcs were (in B5W) on the ships that gained boresite under ACtA, and say what you like there is no denying the ships used B5W as a starting point...)
Reaverman said:
Erm, no. How can that happen? A ship, that is BEHIND another ship is by defintion not in its FORWARD arc. :roll: Same hex stuff is easy to work out too...
It's very clear cut with hex based games, that's the whole fracking point...
Don't want to descend into a hex vs. free measure ruleset debate here but the reason why I would be interested in seeing a hex game work is I imagine that there is less ambiguity about is and what isn't it range, arcs etc and the game is less susceptible to the odd "knock" on models while playing the game.
I appreciate that perceived benefit may be offset by other negatives such as decreased tactical flexibility, which is why I'd like to try it to see how it plays before making a judgement.
I appreciate that perceived benefit may be offset by other negatives such as decreased tactical flexibility, which is why I'd like to try it to see how it plays before making a judgement.
Locutus9956
Mongoose
well if youre ever in the yeovil area on a sunday anytime Hash Id be more than happy to give you a run through B5Wars (a small game between maybe 2 cruisers 
).
Hexes have their advantages, though I must admit I do like the free movement system in ACTA, the one thing I DO miss from B5wars is the detail in where damage is applied etc.
Oh and in B5Wars, YES the Warlocks main gun has a six turn recharge rate but when it hits it really, REALLY hurts (as in 'oh your heavy cruiser seems to have exploded twice over' really hurts) in fact I believe in B5Wars (and somone correct me if Im wrong here) it is the single most powerful weapon in the game short of first one weaponry. Even the Minbari havent got anything with as much 'ooomph' (though neutron lasers fire more frequently and more accurately)
).Hexes have their advantages, though I must admit I do like the free movement system in ACTA, the one thing I DO miss from B5wars is the detail in where damage is applied etc.
Oh and in B5Wars, YES the Warlocks main gun has a six turn recharge rate but when it hits it really, REALLY hurts (as in 'oh your heavy cruiser seems to have exploded twice over' really hurts
) in fact I believe in B5Wars (and somone correct me if Im wrong here) it is the single most powerful weapon in the game short of first one weaponry. Even the Minbari havent got anything with as much 'ooomph' (though neutron lasers fire more frequently and more accurately)
CZuschlag
Mongoose
Heaviest thing I could find on a quick look. The EA Heavy Defense Satillite has one too: 6d10+60 Raking.
Next closest I could find? The Pak'ma'ra Fuser Torpedo on the Psul'shi -- 9d10+20 Flash Plasma. If you don't know what Flash was from B5W, I'll sum up as -- wow, really really bad.
For reference, the EA Omega had two forward laser systems that each did 4d10+20 Raking when things worked out for 'em. Those together turned into 4 AD SAP Beam DD in ACtA.
Next closest I could find? The Pak'ma'ra Fuser Torpedo on the Psul'shi -- 9d10+20 Flash Plasma. If you don't know what Flash was from B5W, I'll sum up as -- wow, really really bad.
For reference, the EA Omega had two forward laser systems that each did 4d10+20 Raking when things worked out for 'em. Those together turned into 4 AD SAP Beam DD in ACtA.
Locutus9956
Mongoose
The lasers werent the Omegas real teeth in B5Wars though, have you looked at how much damage you could inflict with the heavy pulse cannons in said game
Put this way the armament of a Chronos and Omega were fairly similar to how they are in ACTA but in ACTA a Chronos cost nearly as much as an omega.... (without fighters, those cost exta in B5Wars but DAMN could they hurt)
Put this way the armament of a Chronos and Omega were fairly similar to how they are in ACTA but in ACTA a Chronos cost nearly as much as an omega.... (without fighters, those cost exta in B5Wars but DAMN could they hurt
)frobisher said:
Get a forward Hex arc, and draw a straight line along its boundarys on to other arcs. You will see that the line will cover one hex from one arc, and a hex from another arc. So where as in ACTA, you have two models in 1 arc. In a hex based system, it does'nt.....thats whole fracking point!
Locutus9956
Mongoose
nope, still only 4, theyre simply not EQUAL arcs.....
Locutus9956 said:
Great, so Cetnauri would reap the huge forward arc it just aquired. What about the fact that the Ka'Tocs and Ka'Tans and Cetuari ships would all of a sudden become more agile (Ka'Tocs would have 1 60 degree turn). Also as mentioned, Boresight weapons would improve, and could attack anything along the front hex.
Locutus9956
Mongoose
again not strictly true, its hard to explain without a diagram but in B5Wars your arcs are basically if you take the row of hexes that go off digaonaly from the ship and the side arc is between and including that row of hexes, whilst the forward and rear arcs are between those two arcs. Hard to show precicely without a diagram but essentially the thing to bear in mind is that the arcs are NOT noted by the lines between two hexes but rather by chunks between rows of hexes.
........ __
....__/....\__
...... \__./ side arc
...... / side arc
...... \
...... /
Thats the best I can do with keyboard slashes etc and obviously its not exact but that should help illustrate what I mean, it DOES actually work out pretty close to equal sized arcs in practice though.
ahhh damnit, diagram came out worse than I thought, damn you phpBB!! may upload a better diagram later but you should still get the idea
........ __
....__/....\__
...... \__./ side arc
...... / side arc
...... \
...... /
Thats the best I can do with keyboard slashes etc and obviously its not exact but that should help illustrate what I mean, it DOES actually work out pretty close to equal sized arcs in practice though.
ahhh damnit, diagram came out worse than I thought, damn you phpBB!! may upload a better diagram later but you should still get the idea
Oops no I got it backwards, F and A arc would be 120 degrees, P and S 60.Reaverman said:Pardon me, I got my arcs the wrong way round...so Centauri would be nerfed...oh joy, I can see Centauri players loving that
Like this... blue is F/A, green is starboard and red is port, all weapons range 6:
Reaverman said:Burger said:
Pardon me, I got my arcs the wrong way round...so Centauri would be nerfed...oh joy, I can see Centauri players loving that
All in your point of view. AS B5Wars came first, you could just as well argue that the "Cetnauri would reap the huge forward arc it just aquired" by moving to ACTA...
philogara said:Reaverman said:Burger said:
Pardon me, I got my arcs the wrong way round...so Centauri would be nerfed...oh joy, I can see Centauri players loving that
All in your point of view. AS B5Wars came first, you could just as well argue that the "Cetnauri would reap the huge forward arc it just aquired" by moving to ACTA...
LOL...yeah
Locutus9956
Mongoose
the thing to not though is that in B5wars those arcs were only used to determine what arc the ships were in relative to each other for purposes of profile. Weapon arcs in B5wars are VERY different and rarely use anything as huge as 'forward arc'. Centauri and Minbari lasers for example are more limited (basically the edges of the arc effectively 'step' (count straight forward one then diagonal one then forward one again etc etc (giving you again much closer to a 60degree arc). Many more weapons effectively had forward port or forward starboard arcs (basically between the rows of hexes coming of the front and forward side of the ships hex) etc etc.
Firing arcs in most hex based games tend to be ALOT more complex than the 4 main ship arcs
Firing arcs in most hex based games tend to be ALOT more complex than the 4 main ship arcs
Locutus9956 said:the thing to not though is that in B5wars those arcs were only used to determine what arc the ships were in relative to each other for purposes of profile. Weapon arcs in B5wars are VERY different and rarely use anything as huge as 'forward arc'. Centauri and Minbari lasers for example are more limited (basically the edges of the arc effectively 'step' (count straight forward one then diagonal one then forward one again etc etc (giving you again much closer to a 60degree arc). Many more weapons effectively had forward port or forward starboard arcs (basically between the rows of hexes coming of the front and forward side of the ships hex) etc etc.
Firing arcs in most hex based games tend to be ALOT more complex than the 4 main ship arcs
I've not played B5W in a long time, but did not the cones overlap somewhat? E.g. the forward arc consisted of the hex directly in front, and then lines extending either side, so a number of hexes were dissected - these could be in either/both arcs.
Or perhaps I'm thinking of a different game.
Locutus9956
Mongoose
could be, Philogara Its been a while here too! makes little difference if it did though as then its simply making the forward arc 60 and the side arcs 120
Its been a while here too! makes little difference if it did though as then its simply making the forward arc 60 and the side arcs 120 Now you see all I wanted was little boxes/squares/hexes/octogons/generic polygons etc to stop my opponents from chea...I mean to avoid disagreements about what is and what isn't in arc.
...also cause I don't really know how to use "proper" ships in ACTA so I tend to stick with SM ones
...also cause I don't really know how to use "proper" ships in ACTA so I tend to stick with SM ones
