A letter to my beloved Mongoose

[EDG]

Complicated? LOL! Hardly complicated for anyone who is willing to read the rulebook and is capable of + and - calculations. Only ones who might have problems with that are kids who aren't native english speakers simply because of language barrier :lol:

I needed to make a page full of tables to keep track of all the things that changed my 16th level fighter's abilities and attacks based on various buffs that the rest of the party cast on me so I wouldn't have to spend about 5 minutes recalculating them whenever it was my turn each round. The others in my group had pretty much the same problem. It's not the addition or subtraction that's the issue, it's the fact that a lot of them are conditional and the situation keeps changing that makes it hard to keep track of, and I would say that anyone could have a problem with that, not just "kids".

Now in 4e, I don't have that problem anymore. Why? Because it's simpler.

Rulewise it is just as complicated.

I disagree, strongly. 4e is a LOT less complicated than 3e, IMO.

 

[EDG]

If they had considered they wouldn't have let idiotism like 1000 people in 17 buildings(not all even habitants) slip through.

That doesn't really any seem less idiotic than having billions of people llving on a hellhole world at TL 5, or having 5 people living on an idyllic habitable world nextdoor.

They were told to make hack&slash game for kids and not spend extra time in making good rules or believable settings and that's what they delivered.

I give up. You haven't read a word that I or anyone else have said and you're just repeating the same rant over and over. And again, this has sweet FA to do with Traveller, so kindly take your ranting elsewhere.

 

[Infojunky]

I believe that the 48 page, Black and White, Digest Sized book was the absolute pinnacle of Game presentation.

I wouldn't go that far myself. But there was a time at least a few years ago where style seemed to dominate over substance, and I'd rather have a game that looked decent and readable in black&white than all shiny and full colour.

I would, but I'm cranky.

But to be quite honest I'm minimalist. I have pretty much quit buying dead tree editions of any game, PDF's have been my new norm.

 

[Stainless]

TRYING TO GET THIS BACK ON TRACK (sorry for shouting over the irrelevant 4e discussion....)

IMO, a minimum of 5 people besides the writer should review every document before AND after it's sent to the layout guy. At least one of these people should ideally be a "professional" proofreader who's first view of the document is the first time they proofread it.

I have no idea what Mongoose's processes and proofreading policies are. But obviously, they aren't sufficient.

Absolutely, I 100% agree and have been banging on about this now and then for some time. I suspect one of their problems is an unrealistic time between the document being submitted as finished and going to print. If they just added one extra month to look at it properly (as suggested above), I'm sure it would help greatly. I signed up to help beta test the Traveller material, but I've found the limited timeframe given is nullifying alot of the potential benefit this could bring. But hey, I should get back to my proof-reading!

 

[kristof65]

I suspect one of their problems is an unrealistic time between the document being submitted as finished and going to print. If they just added one extra month to look at it properly (as suggested above),

Time frame doesn't need to be an issue IF, and I stress IF, proofreading is given a priority for those who are assigned it.

When I worked at the typesetter, for the three people who had the primary responsibility for proofreading, that was their job priority. When they were proofreading something, you did not interupt them with a phone call, or bug them about something else. Any other job responsibilities they had were secondary to the proof-reading. Other employees, if they were assigned proof-reading as "make-work", that was their priority until they were done (which was usually short stuff for other employees).

Most companies these days (including the one I subcontract to as a tech support/tech writer) don't put that same emphasis on proof-reading. It's assigned on an "as you can get to this" basis. Extending the time frame out doesn't really help, at least not where I work. I actually get better proof-reading results when I shorten time frames on my manuals.

 

[Infojunky]

TRYING TO GET THIS BACK ON TRACK (sorry for shouting over the irrelevant 4e discussion....)

I have no idea what Mongoose's processes and proofreading policies are. But obviously, they aren't sufficient.

Absolutely, I 100% agree and have been banging on about this now and then for some time. I suspect one of their problems is an unrealistic time between the document being submitted as finished and going to print. If they just added one extra month to look at it properly (as suggested above), I'm sure it would help greatly. I signed up to help beta test the Traveller material, but I've found the limited timeframe given is nullifying alot of the potential benefit this could bring. But hey, I should get back to my proof-reading!

One solution would be to change the release order of the products, PDF 1st then the Dead Tree edition. Let the fan base polish the draft so to speak.

 

[AndrewW]

Absolutely, I 100% agree and have been banging on about this now and then for some time. I suspect one of their problems is an unrealistic time between the document being submitted as finished and going to print. If they just added one extra month to look at it properly (as suggested above), I'm sure it would help greatly. I signed up to help beta test the Traveller material, but I've found the limited timeframe given is nullifying alot of the potential benefit this could bring. But hey, I should get back to my proof-reading!

I haven't found that the timeframe is limiting this.

 

[Dave Chase]

Hello tneva82,

Since this is a Mongoose and a Traveller Forum, could you please keep to the subject.

Currently your agruements do nothing for nor discuss how Traveller is involved.

Please stay on general subject of the forum.

Dave Chase

 

[kristof65]

One solution would be to change the release order of the products, PDF 1st then the Dead Tree edition. Let the fan base polish the draft so to speak.

This is what I do now for the Equipment Manuals I write.

However, the traditional games distirbution chain seems to have an issue with that, so it may not be a viable solution for a company like Mongoose who relies on them quite a bit.

 

[kungfugenius]

I'm a bit of a grognard myself, but we should leave sleeping dogs lying... or something like that.

I've gotten so much clarity about the whole printing process and what not, thanks fellas. I have an uncanny eye for detail and would love to offer my services as proof reader to Mongoose for free. Did you hear that Mongoose? I WILL WORK FOR FREE! as long as i get 1 free copy of the books i proof read.

Side note: Didnt care much for a new version of a game that came out recently (wont mention which) so I switched to Traveller. Since I've left that new mainstream system I've explored a few other systems and it's been great. Experimented with Paranoia (love it, even incorporated it into my Traveller campaign) , Amber DRPG, Star Frontiers, Feng Shui, Legend of the 5 Rings, Fudge, Rifts, Palladium Heroes, and I'm very happy that I ended up with Traveller. I really enjoy it despite my minor issues with it.

 

[BP]

...I WILL WORK FOR FREE! as long as i get 1 free copy of the books i proof read. ...

Uhm... I would suggest looking up the definition of 'free', as well as, the rules for capitalization.

I'd be quick to point out the flaws in spelling, grammar and content as well as my dislike for the choice of fonts, layout, and even paper. But, in reality, most of that doesn't really matter once I start using the material. The primary exception being content errors - many of which are matters of opinion or turn out to be my own misunderstandings.

Free offers of proofreading have this flaw - the suggested changes must still be collected, organized, reviewed, approved, integrated and checked. This takes time and talent - both of which can cost substantially in relation to the margins (no pun) each book is likely to operate under.

Not to mention - delay the availability of books!

I am a fairly picky sort (there are other names that fit :wink: ), but overall I am fairly happy with MgT's quality and don't feel in any way slighted for my money. Furthermore, my impression is they aim to improve and are doing so within the constraints of still having to make a profit so they can continue to justify giving us new material!