A Guide to the Third Imperium?

[TrippyHippy]

This idea was stimulated in discussion on the CotI site, but it’s an idea that I think deserves some mention here too.

Basically, I am feeling a little frustrated with the state of the relationship between various editions of the game and the broader Traveller community that has become a little tribal.

There has been a couple of relatively recent Kickstarter campaigns (T5 and Liftoff) that have disappointed for different reasons. The current Mongoose edition, while very successful (and one of my personal favourite games to play!), nevertheless gets continual criticism about appearance and so on. There has been calls for new editions and revisions, but this could just lead to more division if not handled well.

So how about producing an epic sized, full colour, high production standards, comprehensive and systemless Guide to the Third Imperium in a manner similar to The Guide to Glorantha produced by Moon Design/Issaries recently?

It’s something that no version of Traveller actually has, and something that all versions of the game could actually make use of. If successfully produced (with a storming Kickstarter campaign) it could actually promote and open up new markets for all versions of the game to be able to tap into. From this, those companies could choose to revive or supplement their own lines as they see fit - so in Mongoose’s case, maybe a deluxe edition and some sort of e-generator or App to simulate play?

Just an idea for people to think about.

 

[dragoner]

Isn't that basically what the Library Data books and the wiki are? Even Don's timeline is a guide to the 3I in its own way.

 

[TrippyHippy]

Isn't that basically what the Library Data books and the wiki are? Even Don's timeline is a guide to the 3I in its own way.

It’s the sort of material that would be in it for sure - but what I am talking about is a much bigger, fuller and more deluxe book - hardback 500+ pages, full colour, slipcase, bookmarks, etc… sort of thing. It would act as a campaign book, history book, map book, reading book and coffee-table art book.

 

[dragoner]

Isn't that basically what the Library Data books and the wiki are? Even Don's timeline is a guide to the 3I in its own way.

It’s the sort of material that would be in it for sure - but what I am talking about is a much bigger, fuller and more deluxe book - hardback 500+ pages, full colour, slipcase, bookmarks, etc… sort of thing. It would act as a campaign book, history book, map book, reading book and coffee-table art book.

And in its own way, an exegesis to light a thousand fires of grognard arguments. The person to write it would be Marc, and he's pretty loose with canon. Who knows though?

 

[sideranautae]

So how about producing an epic sized, full colour, high production standards, comprehensive and systemless Guide to the Third Imperium in a manner similar to The Guide to Glorantha produced by Moon Design/Issaries recently?

No interest. I haven't played Trav using the 3I for 30 years. No one I play with cares about the 3I setting either. Old and moldy setting.

 

[TrippyHippy]

So how about producing an epic sized, full colour, high production standards, comprehensive and systemless Guide to the Third Imperium in a manner similar to The Guide to Glorantha produced by Moon Design/Issaries recently?

No interest. I haven't played Trav using the 3I for 30 years. No one I play with cares about the 3I setting either. Old and moldy setting.

I knew a lot of people who were arguing similar things about Glorantha before too.

My view is that most of the material in all editions of Traveller tend to be geared towards the Imperium anyway - and any setting that vast can be updated and adapted in all sorts of directions. It would certainly need to be directed for canon, but the upshot is that it would resolve a lot of grognard disputes should that be an issue. Moreover, it would be an ideal way of introducing new Travellers to the canon, without alienating them over system issues (which can actually be significant).

 

[sideranautae]

Moreover, it would be an ideal way of introducing new Travellers to the canon, without alienating them over system issues (which can actually be significant).

The problem with Traveller not being a competitive RPG isn't the setting but, the system. Most get turned off WAY before they learn anything much about the 3I setting.

 

[TrippyHippy]

Moreover, it would be an ideal way of introducing new Travellers to the canon, without alienating them over system issues (which can actually be significant).

The problem with Traveller not being a competitive RPG isn't the setting but, the system. Most get turned off WAY before they learn anything much about the 3I setting.

Exactly. The number of people playing some of facsimile of Traveller, but preferring to use GURPS, D20, FATE, HERO or whatever - beyond the various editions of Traveller itself - is probably quite significant. Having a pure setting book, which is system neutral, as a unifying project should’t be dismissed I think.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

So how about producing an epic sized, full colour, high production standards, comprehensive and systemless Guide to the Third Imperium in a manner similar to The Guide to Glorantha produced by Moon Design/Issaries recently?

But is there a Barnes & Noble audience-kickstarter-never-played-Traveller-before-market for such a book based on old '60s sci-fi outside of existing Traveller players that already have the books?

 

[Tom Kalbfus]

You know, the Forgotten Realms has novels, where are the novels for the 3I setting? Have you seen any? I looked in several bookstores, never could find any novels set in the Third Imperium, plenty of Star Trek and Star Wars Novels though. Even the StarDrive setting has a few books. For the most part, it appears 3I is purely a gaming setting and not a literary setting the way the Forgotten Realms is.

As for the guide itself, what eras should be covered?

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

You know, the Forgotten Realms has novels, where are the novels for the 3I setting? Have you seen any? I looked in several bookstores, never could find any novels set in the Third Imperium, plenty of Star Trek and Star Wars Novels though. Even the StarDrive setting has a few books. For the most part, it appears 3I is purely a gaming setting and not a literary setting the way the Forgotten Realms is.

D&D, Star Trek, and Star Wars have something in common that Traveller has none of.

 

[Rick]

You know, the Forgotten Realms has novels, where are the novels for the 3I setting? Have you seen any? I looked in several bookstores, never could find any novels set in the Third Imperium, plenty of Star Trek and Star Wars Novels though. Even the StarDrive setting has a few books. For the most part, it appears 3I is purely a gaming setting and not a literary setting the way the Forgotten Realms is.

As for the guide itself, what eras should be covered?

I have one of those books sat on my bookshelf, thanks. 8)

 

[Tom Kalbfus]

You know, the Forgotten Realms has novels, where are the novels for the 3I setting? Have you seen any? I looked in several bookstores, never could find any novels set in the Third Imperium, plenty of Star Trek and Star Wars Novels though. Even the StarDrive setting has a few books. For the most part, it appears 3I is purely a gaming setting and not a literary setting the way the Forgotten Realms is.

D&D, Star Trek, and Star Wars have something in common that Traveller has none of.

I think a professional science fiction author writing a novel set in the Traveller Universe would definitely help with game sales.

 

[dragoner]

There are Traveller novels.

If someone wants a guide to the 3I, they should go for it. There is some controversial canon, esp around GURPS; I hear it tries to make the Imperium all sweetness and nice, etc., stuff like that.

However, as far as attracting new players, Mongoose would do better to pay attention to Wizards of the Coast's re-release of D&D. Their marketing plan, pricing structure, and such; they paid professionals to create that plan, and Mongoose can use it for free.

 

[Saladman]

So how about producing an epic sized, full colour, high production standards, comprehensive and systemless Guide to the Third Imperium in a manner similar to The Guide to Glorantha produced by Moon Design/Issaries recently?

But is there a Barnes & Noble audience-kickstarter-never-played-Traveller-before-market for such a book based on old '60s sci-fi outside of existing Traveller players that already have the books?

That's the challenge I see. The newcomers who might most need a 500 page coffee table book (if they only knew it) are the very people least likely to purchase a 500 page coffee table book.

Similar problem to kickstarting a starter set to Traveller, really - people in need of a Traveller starter set are unlikely to find you on Kickstarter, and people who find you on Kickstarter probably already have a version of Traveller to run.

 

[Condottiere]

The vast majority of official Warhammer, especially 40K, novels are crap, and some are plainly unreadable.

While I wouldn't discourage whoever happens to hold the franchise from either encouraging or commissioning writers from creating these works of art, I don't see it creating enough of a buzz to become a breakthrough to a wider audience.

One thing about D&D and 40K is that there is enough material that they can be parodied, especially by fan created webcomics, and considered sexy enough to be subject to Rule 34.

 

[Jacqual]

The single biggest problem of doing this, other then getting permission from Mr. Miller is the compilation of all of the 3rd Emperium's history. You would have to gather everything from every version of Traveller, leaving nothing out. The put it together in a logical order, whether on a timeling or location or what have you. Then remove anything with any sort of game stats, whether weapon, vehicle, person, and etc. etc. etc. So you do not alienate any one of the game systems that does not use those particular stats.

I do believe that if this was done correctly and the book was an 8.5 inches by 11 inches, I cannot see how you would fit the thing in a book of only 500 pages or so. I mean you are compiling information that started in what 1976 for being printed in a 1st printing in 1977. I Mean how many pages are in Don's very impressive 3rd Imperium timeline?

Now I do agree it would be cool to have and a good chance if I had the money to purchase it I would. Especially if I could order a PDF copy as well.

 

[Nathan Brazil]

I do not think that it is a much of a problem to do an "official" History of the Third Imperium supplement. Creating the draft is easy. Issue #1 is style.

As an example: For those who can get it, I would recommend you to read the Traveller: 1248 - Out of Darkness Book book. Setting aside grognard arguments with regards to canonicity...IT SERVES as an example of trying to get a feel for the setting and the history it is going to present. That book only covers from about 1125 to 1248, but is able to give you an idea of what happened in Charted Space to get you a feel for that campaign, in relatively clean brushstrokes.

Then you have something like the T4 Millieu: 0 book which explains HOW the Imperium works in its time period.

Combine those two styles together and you would have an excellent campaign supplement of the Third Imperium overall in 1105.

Issue #2 editing are page count and scope. How macro do you go with how the Imperium works? How macro do you go with history?

 

[Tom Kalbfus]

The single biggest problem of doing this, other then getting permission from Mr. Miller is the compilation of all of the 3rd Emperium's history. You would have to gather everything from every version of Traveller, leaving nothing out. The put it together in a logical order, whether on a timeling or location or what have you. Then remove anything with any sort of game stats, whether weapon, vehicle, person, and etc. etc. etc. So you do not alienate any one of the game systems that does not use those particular stats.

I do believe that if this was done correctly and the book was an 8.5 inches by 11 inches, I cannot see how you would fit the thing in a book of only 500 pages or so. I mean you are compiling information that started in what 1976 for being printed in a 1st printing in 1977. I Mean how many pages are in Don's very impressive 3rd Imperium timeline?

Now I do agree it would be cool to have and a good chance if I had the money to purchase it I would. Especially if I could order a PDF copy as well.

What if we did this for Traveller? Would 500 pages be enough for that?

 

[Reynard]

Star Wars has a much bigger audience than Traveller so there's more interest for such merchandise. Then again, there have been many versions of Star Wars RPG games and they never do well. Can't say the same for 30+years for Traveller.

I have the MegaTraveller books that have lots of 3I information but MT was the micromanager of Traveller versions. Marc Miller's Traveller went back the very beginning and the New Era went to the end. Mongoose seems to be playing a relative casual take focusing on the elements of the game with those off hand references. I like that because it make it easier to substitute Imperium with 'fill in your setting using these elements'. That's why I see Mongoose not getting too Imperial in supplements or an official guide. It would be nice, however...