A bigger, better Harrier

[Condottiere]

One assumes that the jump drive is inherently embedded in the starship's mass.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Turn it off for the millisecond needed to jump.

Odd, that has never been mentioned anywhere. In order to jump a ship must switch off its acceleration compensation, artificial gravity, and maneuver drive.

What happens when they are switched on again in jump space?

I thought a gravity field would immediately cause the ship to precipitate out of jump space...

 

[Sigtrygg]

One assumes that the jump drive is inherently embedded in the starship's mass.

Mass is not a factor, only volume.

 

[Terry Mixon]

Mass is not a factor, only volume.

Jump drives have never had an issue with a ship’s inherent gravity, natural or artificial. If they had, they would never work. It must compensate for it by design.

 

[Condottiere]

The jump drive may exist within it's own bubble.

 

[MasterGwydion]

My thought on this is that the ship's hull acts as a type of Farraday Cage for the ship's gravity, both natural and artificial, while it is powered up. In jumpspace, it doesn't matter if the ship has "mass" (gravity) or not.

 

[Fluffy Bunny Feet]

What happens when they are switched on again in jump space?

I thought a gravity field would immediately cause the ship to precipitate out of jump space...

External (to jump space) gravity field. Just because the "Jump bubble" can interact with normal space gravity fields to pierce the bubble doesn't mean internal gravity fields do the same.

Maybe the ship wouldn't be pulled out if it were a null gravity hull? Lab ships are the safest ship? It makes different universe if you need spinning ships to have gravity in jump. Dispersed non gravity hulls are cheap though.

Maybe the truth about misjumps are because they don't synchronize the turn off/on artificial gravity fields accurately enough with the Jump drive.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Jump drives have never had an issue with a ship’s inherent gravity, natural or artificial. If they had, they would never work. It must compensate for it by design.

So gravitics is very different from gravity.

 

[Sigtrygg]

The jump drive may exist within it's own bubble.

Which gravity interacts with and precipitates from jump...

 

[Sigtrygg]

My thought on this is that the ship's hull acts as a type of Farraday Cage for the ship's gravity, both natural and artificial, while it is powered up. In jumpspace, it doesn't matter if the ship has "mass" (gravity) or not.

So now the ship's hull can block real gravity and artificial gravity? Does that mean the ship weighs less on a world surface thanks to this blocking of gravity?

 

[Sigtrygg]

External (to jump space) gravity field. Just because the "Jump bubble" can interact with normal space gravity fields to pierce the bubble doesn't mean internal gravity fields do the same.

So the gravity within a jump field is not the same as the gravity outside the jump field...

Maybe the ship wouldn't be pulled out if it were a null gravity hull?

If the hull has no gravitics than there is no "gravity" for the jump bubble to interact with.

Lab ships are the safest ship? It makes different universe if you need spinning ships to have gravity in jump.

I quite like that idea

Dispersed non gravity hulls are cheap though.

They are indeed, and you could put hamster cages for the crew and passengers for jump space use.

Maybe the truth about misjumps are because they don't synchronize the turn off/on artificial gravity fields accurately enough with the Jump drive.

Worth exploring in a scenario certainly.

One of the reasons I love this forum, despite my obviously silly point of discussion we arrive at stuff that may make a game a bit more interesting for the players

 

[Condottiere]

We could cheat, and limit it to a certain amount of mass.

And then, we have the Tigress class.

 

[Fluffy Bunny Feet]

So the gravity within a jump field is not the same as the gravity outside the jump field...

Is pressure applied a tank the same as pressure applied to the outside?

Take a metal container fill it with 1 bar of atmosphere seal it put it in a vacuum chamber and pump the air from the chamber. Nothing likely happens to the container. Now put it in normal atmosphere and pump the air from the container and pressure will likely cause it to be crushed.

A jump field need not react to an INTERNAL gravity field the same as to an EXTERNAL one. It could also react differently where there is neither or both. Lots of options for the game master to decide for his universe.

 

[Fluffy Bunny Feet]

So now the ship's hull can block real gravity and artificial gravity? Does that mean the ship weighs less on a world surface thanks to this blocking of gravity?

Well it would explain how 1g ships can take off from high g worlds, my current assumption is that the drive is more powerful in an intense field than in space but this fits better, might affect your orbit though.

I might need to redesign a .5g M-Drive ship (TL 8 prototype) as this would allow it to take off as well. I probably will leave it the alone as it fits the setting inspiration better as is.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Is pressure applied a tank the same as pressure applied to the outside?

Define pressure...
just how far does artificial gravity reach anyway, just another thing we don't know about it.

Take a metal container fill it with 1 bar of atmosphere seal it put it in a vacuum chamber and pump the air from the chamber. Nothing likely happens to the container. Now put it in normal atmosphere and pump the air from the container and pressure will likely cause it to be crushed.

How is that analogous to a 1g internal field within a ship in jump extending its 1g field to interact with the jump interface, and we already know gravity causes that to precipitate the ship from jump.

A jump field need not react to an INTERNAL gravity field the same as to an EXTERNAL one.

Why not? Explain the mechanism. But first describe and explain even with handwavium how artificial gravity is generated - ie magitech.

How does the internal artificial gravity field not extend outside of the hull? Simple, artificial gravity is not the same as real gravity, it is hanwavium magitech with different properties. Which is back to the start of this diversion.

My argument, if you care to track back, is that Traveller gravitics are magitech, pure handwavium with different properties to real gravity.

It could also react differently where there is neither or both. Lots of options for the game master to decide for his universe.

Yes, there are always options, especially with something as poorly described as Traveller gravitics...

 

[Condottiere]

Speaking Terratorially, there are some regions on the planet that are below one standard gravity.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Well it would explain how 1g ships can take off from high g worlds, my current assumption is that the drive is more powerful in an intense field than in space but this fits better, might affect your orbit though.

I thought about that as I typed it...

I might need to redesign a .5g M-Drive ship (TL 8 prototype) as this would allow it to take off as well. I probably will leave it the alone as it fits the setting inspiration better as is.

My take on the maneuver drive has not changed much since CT days - the gravitics reduce the inertial mass of the ship and the ion engine/plasma rocket provides thrust. A true gravity manipulation drive doesn't appear until well past TL20

 

[Terry Mixon]

So gravitics is very different from gravity.

It must be or the technology would be incompatible with jump drives.

 

[MasterGwydion]

So now the ship's hull can block real gravity and artificial gravity? Does that mean the ship weighs less on a world surface thanks to this blocking of gravity?

Only applicable when you jump, so yes, but external gravity still affects the ship. One-way Faraday Cage.

 

[MasterGwydion]

It must be or the technology would be incompatible with jump drives.

The only things stated for certain is that gravity wells in realspace can pull you out of jumpspace. Nowhere is it said that a gravity well in jumpspace will affect you in any way.