Fluffy Bunny Feet
Cosmic Mongoose
Assuming that it is the same type of artificial gravity as the one used on the ship. It could be something totally different even being REAL gravity while the ships isn't.
A bigger, better Harrier
- Thread starter gylesw
- Start date
Jules Verne's 1870 ‘20000 leagues under the sea’ long before Einstein’s paper in fact before he was born. Some of the earliest sci-fi.
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Okay here’s the thing Energy and Mass bends spacetime Why? The fact that we can measure it and test it does not make it a cause it makes it an effect. For it to be a cause we would have to know why and what causes Energy and Mass to bend spacetime.
Effect mass and energy bend spacetime cause we don’t know why they do this. Yes we can measure the effect and create equations to this end but don’t mix up the ability to measure an effect as a cause.
The electrons in the shells closest to the nucleus have a strong force of attraction to the protons. Sometimes, the electrons in an atom's outermost shells do not have a strong force of attraction to the protons. These electrons can be pushed out of their orbits. Applying a force can make them shift from one atom to another. These shifting electrons are electricity.
When you call something Magitech you are literally saying that no matter how far we advance our scientific understanding we will never be able to do this. Now jump drive is definitely Questionable and I’d give you magitech on that but gravity control that’s a different story many scientists believe that we will be able to do this some day so no not magitech sci-fiction.
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
I take it you haven't read the novel then...
"Electricity provided by sodium/mercury electric batteries (with the sodium provided by extraction from seawater) is the craft's primary power source for propulsion and other services. The energy needed to extract the sodium is provided by coal mined from the sea floor."
The atomic powered vessel was a Disney invention for the film version, by which time civilian nuclear reactors were a thing.
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
No, that is not what the term means.
Magitech is advanced technology we haven't a clue how it works, we can't describe it or explain it, all we can do is say this is what it does.
The jump drive has more description and explanation in Traveller than gravitics. Still total handwavium magitech though.
And until it can be described and explained it remains magitech.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Then we are all screwed since @MongooseMatt has clearly stated that Mongoose doesn't like defining or explaining things. That means all Traveller is magitech and there is no point in discussing anything. *handwavium" is now the entire game and it can't be played.
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
Who said anything about not being able to play it? If I can run a game with wizards and elves I can run a game with warp engines and phasers 
Where did I say you can't play a game just because it has magical technology in it? You should see some of the stuff I have thrown at the players in the Culture setting I run every summer.
The issue is if the magical technology is applied consistently - the law of unintended consequence may as well be added as the fourth law of thermodynamics...
(yes I know there are already four laws, zeroth, first, second, third, so the next one is the fourth even though it is number five)
The lack of description means I am free to describe it.
The lack of technobabble means I can invent my own handwavium.
The lack of a "scientific" explanation using ingame science means I can invent my own, sticking as close or deviating as much from known science as I want.
Within my game I want consistency, I'm not too worried about the handwavium that creeps in as TLs advance further from 7.
Consistency of the magitech...
Where did I say you can't play a game just because it has magical technology in it? You should see some of the stuff I have thrown at the players in the Culture setting I run every summer.
The issue is if the magical technology is applied consistently - the law of unintended consequence may as well be added as the fourth law of thermodynamics...
(yes I know there are already four laws, zeroth, first, second, third, so the next one is the fourth even though it is number five)
The lack of description means I am free to describe it.
The lack of technobabble means I can invent my own handwavium.
The lack of a "scientific" explanation using ingame science means I can invent my own, sticking as close or deviating as much from known science as I want.
Within my game I want consistency, I'm not too worried about the handwavium that creeps in as TLs advance further from 7.
Consistency of the magitech...
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
lolz! Too trueWho said anything about not being able to play it? If I can run a game with wizards and elves I can run a game with warp engines and phasers
Where did I say you can't play a game just because it has magical technology in it? You should see some of the stuff I have thrown at the players in the Culture setting I run every summer.
The issue is if the magical technology is applied consistently - the law of unintended consequence may as well be added as the fourth law of thermodynamics...
(yes I know there are already four laws, zeroth, first, second, third, so the next one is the fourth even though it is number five)
Yes, but this means that We can never have a conversation about a shared universe if it works different in every universe. Then there is no shared universe.
We were discussing consistency before. If natural gravity is gravity and artificial gravity is something that just acts like gravity in some respects, but isn't gravity, yeah, its all handwavium. We don't need to know why something works to enjoy the game. We just need to have the "formulas" that describe how they work. When a thing exists in a game, it is important to know how that component of the game relates to other components in the game. In other threads staterooms and life support are the topic of debate to narrow down how things function, not why they function. In this part of this thread it seems to be the interaction between jump drives and gravity and how things have to work in relation to other things that We already know about the setting or the system.
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
Yup, this is the main problem of having no in universe descriptions or explanations, everyone will do things their own way.
Well put.
Your entire post was entirely correct until the complete non sequitur of “and it can’t be played.” Which is provably false because I’m going to play it tomorrow.
It’s not a hard SciFi game. People love these threads but as you say they’re utterly pointless beyond their intrinsic fun. The game system has gravitics because it makes the game more fun and simplifies certain aspects of gameplay, mainly around combat, not because there’s any hint from science that we will or won’t ever be able to manipulate gravitational forces this. Traveller’s not a simulation. It’s a fun, pulpy 1970s vision of the future.
Fluffy Bunny Feet
Cosmic Mongoose
The Pournelle Empire (1st and 2nd) of Man (later of Man and Motie)? Maybe the earlier CoDominium?
Most hull types would go away for starships, no streamlining big ships cylindrical.
Arkathan
Emperor Mongoose
Yeah. That's what I get for reading it before my younger son was born, so 35+ years ago
Agreed. Cylinders and hammers/hamster wheels.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Without artificial gravity tiling, and inertial compensation, there's always ye tailsitter, since we'd still have constant acceleration.
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
Until you stop accelerating.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Sometimes, you just want to take off on your own.