5 Point Minbari fleet

[ATN082268]

I was thinking about a 5 War point Minbari fleet for an Annihilation scenario, not knowing what race my opponent was going to use. This is what I came up with (and keep in mind that I have never used the Minbari):

2 Sharlin
2 Morshin
4 Ashinta
4 Leshath

What weaknesses are there with this fleet? What fleet would you pick to counter it?

Sincerely,

Andrew Norris

 

[KennyBoy]

Well, if your plan is to use a fighter swarm with re-directed fire from the Leshaths, then this is a good fleet...
However, if your opponent brings something like Drakh - and 5 pt War means that he could put some of the bigger ships on the board - then the GEG will virtually nullify most of your ships' firepower (except the Sharlins, obviously).
Personally, i'd half the number of Leshath and Morshins that you're taking. The Leshath is a good scout - if not the best - but to put 20% of your fleet into them is a bit much IMO, also one Morshin will give you the +1 to Init and Dog-fights, so the other is surplus to requirements.
As a number of my opponents recently would attest, the Ashinta is a brilliant ship, and 4 would be the number i'd take...
Sharlins are, obviously, one of the most feared War level ships in the game, but i've found that one Sharlin, backed up by two Tinashi, is a better option.
The Tinashi has a decent beam, but more importantly, the TL mini-beams are the real difference makers...
So, for me, i'd take

1 Sharlin
1 Morshin
4 Ashinta
2 Leshath
4 Tinashi

The Ashinta and Tinashi's mini-beams won't need a Leshath to try re-direct rolls as their already Twin-Linked, so the Leshaths can concentrate on reducing Stealth on opponents ships (if Shadows/Minbari) or their Scouts - which invariably have the Stealth Trait - which can then be blitzed by the sharlin from long range...
A squadron of Tinashi will sweep a War ship away without having to be too lucky on the beam dice, because of the 32 TL mini-beams will result in about 20-30 points of extra damage (including crits) trust me, I have used a Tinashi "beam-team" to virtually win big games with hardly any help from the remainder of my fleets!

 

[TGT]

1 Sharlin or long range variant this is the assination target of your oppo
so range and terrain are your ally
2 Tinashi as body guard for Sharlin
3 Ashinta or 2 and 1 raid point flyers
1 Leshath (hide!)
4 Tinashi alternatively gives you 2 sqds of 3 to go after your assination victim

Tinashi's in sqd of 3
Ashintas & Leshath as intiative sinks

with this fleet you have no worries whatever he takes used correctly it will prevail!

all of Kens points are very good

 

[locarno24]

Agreed that 4 scouts is probably too many - with a carrier on hand you don't really need it for the turn one initiative bonus; a Morshin-class has a command trait and you're the bloody Minbari to start with....

You only ever need to tag a ship with one to wipe out its stealth, so you don't need more than a couple for that....

As noted, neither twin-linked fusion cannon nor neutron lasers gain any benefit from scout redirects.


This fleet is a nasty, nasty carrier fleet - good fleet carrier coverage across the whole board to recover flights, a hell of a lot of minbari fighters, and escort coverage to back them up if they look to be getting overrun.



My natural reflex for countering this would be Narns - plenty of damage tanks that rely on durable hulls rather than heavy armour, stealth or interceptors - none of which are any use whatsoever against a mini-beam armed fighter fleet - and the option of G'Kariths for nice cheap fighter clearance.
Pulsar mine salvoes will make you very, very upset as they can toast fighter waves at long range.

For that matter, the mine fleet - about one third to two thirds G'Karith and Dag'Kar - is generally unpleasant for the Minbari. They're not as utterly reliant on stealth as some people like to make out but if you start lobbing triple damage mines at them then they have problems.

 

[Lord David the Denied]

A Centauri fleet with the same points spent on carriers could win that fighter war. Sadly the Raziks you'd need to use to do this are worthless for attacking the capital ships...

 

[Locutus9956]

Wheres all the assasination coming from TGT? It's an annihilation scenario That said your fleet should work anyway, the Tinashi is a sick little ship for any purpose

 

[TGT]

he edited ?? after my response

 

[Enalut]

I have done quite well with a similar fleet in large batles:

3 Sharlin
2 Morshin
4 Ashintas

You will win any fighter engagement (rember you can transfer AF from the Asnintas to your nials to make them truely sickening).

It alsw gives you lots of Excellent Beamy goodness. And the Ashinta is the best all around ship in any race (Good hull score, good speed and manuverability, Best escort in the game, and if its weapons are few in number, they are longranged and effective).

Another option that has been mentioned is the Tiniashi--an utterly brutal battleship. However, if the opponet sees through its stealth, it doesn't have the staying power for a batle ship (yes I know it is the same as the Ashinta, but Hull 5 with 38 Points is at the top end of the raid level and towards the bottom of the battle level).

Basically I think of the Tinashi as a battle cruiser--well enough armed to deal with any ship in the game, but relying on its speed, manuverability and stealth to avoid being hit.

The Lesath is an excellent scout, except most of your weapons cann't be redirected anyway, so it is only useful for defeating stealth.

Finally, another excellent (if unorthodox) choice is the Neshtan. It is a solid gunship. Hull 6 with stealth. IT caries teh Sharlin's beams and the Tinashi's secondaries. It is a roll player usually, but in a 5 point war game it can come into its own. (especially if you expet to face any emine fleets)

Just to try soemthing different I might suggest:
3 Neshtans (squadroned--24 30" B/P/DD AD are enough to gut most other War level ship sin one turn, and at hull 6 you canm even risk emines into the squadron)
6 Ashintas to provide AF and fire support
2 Lesath's to deal with any scouts that might be present (although I have fousnt he best way to neutralize a scout is to destroy its support.

Another Option that I have used witha great deal of success:
5 Tinashis
2 Morshins
4 Ashitnas
2 Lesaths

Not an overwhelming fitghtr force, but using the nials and ashintas you will be able to neutralize fighters and permit your to move into attack roll later in the game.

 

[Enalut]

Sorry for teh double post--I just noticed the second question

The weaknesses of a Minbari fleet geberally and especially at higher levels, is thier hull scores. Hull 5 isn'e bad on a a raid ship, but on a battle or War it can be brutal.

The obvious counter to any minbari fleet is emines, and the Narn Emaines cna be extremly nasty when fired in mass.

A second weakness for an unprepared fleet can be fighters with a range of >2"--thunderbolts can be brutal and can force you to devote valuable and useful secondaries in an effort to kill fighters.

Generally, because of their lower hulls I would tend to avoid other beams agaisnt the Minbari and rely on more general weapony.

Fianlly, given the 2e Slow Loading/Stealth ruling, I would use as many missles, torpedoes etc... as I could.

 

[Burger]

A weakness of the Minbari at higher levels is the number of ways stealth can be reduced. You get +1 for scout, +1 for being within 8", +1 for having hit the target already this turn. That can reduce a Sharlin to stealth 2+. If your opponent knows he'll be facing Minbari, he can quite effectively reduce your stealth. You can fight back against scouts using your Leshaths to reduce their stealth to 1+... but there's not a lot you can do against the other two.

 

[chainmailler]

GEG is pure evil.

 

[ATN082268]

<Snip Post>

So, for me, i'd take

1 Sharlin
1 Morshin
4 Ashinta
2 Leshath
4 Tinashi

The Ashinta and Tinashi's mini-beams won't need a Leshath to try re-direct rolls as their already Twin-Linked, so the Leshaths can concentrate on reducing Stealth on opponents ships (if Shadows/Minbari) or their Scouts - which invariably have the Stealth Trait - which can then be blitzed by the sharlin from long range...
A squadron of Tinashi will sweep a War ship away without having to be too lucky on the beam dice, because of the 32 TL mini-beams will result in about 20-30 points of extra damage (including crits) trust me, I have used a Tinashi "beam-team" to virtually win big games with hardly any help from the remainder of my fleets!

I like this fleet selection as it seems to be the most middle of the road which is a good idea when you don't know what your opponent will field and especially when you are new to using a race. Thanks everyone for their help !!!

Sincerely,

Andrew Norris

 

[TGT]

I don't see why you'd need two Leshaths though
nor the morshin its just so frail and a battle point of fighters is a bit excessive when you have ashinta's I'd say take a Tinashi

 

[Burger]

2 Leshaths is always useful! The numbe of times I've gone a whole game without passing a single scouting roll...

 

[TGT]

well if you take 2 and still don't get a good stealth roll why still take 2?

 

[nekomata fuyu]

I'm guessing that it significantly reduces the number of games where you don't pass a single stealth roll. It would do statistically at any rate.

 

[Burger]

Plus my Leshaths are always crit monsters :lol: