2nd Ed its great :D : however in an ideal world.......

[Lord David the Denied]

That's because I'm right... :wink:

 

[GhostRecon]

Honestly I don't think the problem is as much with the Octurion's guns as much with the fact it doesn't fit that well with centauri doctrine in that it has the dual foibles of shortish range weapons AND very low speed. It is so slow in fact that it can't support the speed 12-14 elements of the Centauri fleet at all. An APTE from a vorchan and it blazes completely out of the cover an Octurion provides.

EA, Narn and Minbari will be ripping holes into an Octurion or its fleetmates long before it can respond. Hell, a Sharlin's secondaries outrange everything an Octurion has AND it is quickler.

I'd up the Octurion's beams to 22" or 24" and crank the speed up to 7 (and crank the speed on the primus to 9). It is still short-ranged compared to nearly everyone else's heavy but at least the extra inch of move helps.

Tzarevitch

Except that, Centauri warships are supposed to be precisely as they are. Slow, lumbering bastions of firepower that nobody wants to get anywhere near. Fortresses, for the shoals of smaller, faster hunting-packs of Centauri Warships, such as the Vorchan, to work around.

The smaller vessels, like the Vorchan, are the true striking arm of the Centauri Navy. Not their heavy capitalships. Afterall, they're Centauri, not some Narn!

To quote the Centuari blip on the fleetbook:

Captains of larger ships such as the Primus or Octurion treat themselves as mobile fortresses. With heavy weaponry on all sides, and defensive turrets and fighters ready, these giants can sail carelessly into the centre of an engagement to draw a portion of fire away from the more fragile hunting packs circling the edges of a battle. Their powerful weapons should be used to finish off a limping enemy left behind after one of the hunting packs has injured and herded it into the larger ship’s field of fire. Centauri battle plans are sometimes shaped like a corkscrew, with hunting packs circling slowly inward toward the awaiting flagship in the centre.

Light fighters like the Sentri and especially Razik wings are rarely used for ship targets due to their woeful lack of punch. Great dogfighters and quite agile in the hands of the right pilot, they are terribly fragile and cannot withstand much damage. Against superior opponents, either in size or skill, Sentri wings are little more than annoyances that keep an enemy’s sensors clogged with random blips of information. Clouds of Sentris can theoretically hinder larger vessels, but most captains know this to be rare and would much rather save the pilots for a better use later.

The first and most important lesson a Centauri captain is taught is the unforgiving nature of an exploding ally. So often are the Centauri grouped closely in hunting packs that when one is finished, on the verge of detonation, the others should leave them for dead. Every crewman that is saved on one of those burning hulks has over a thousand dead brothers who were not so lucky when their ship finally exploded – taking out any rescue attempts in the process. The Navy pays the House in which you come from greatly upon your death, so there is little harm in leaving you behind if your ship is crippled. Heroes do not live long in the Centauri Royal Navy; there is no room for them.

(Mongoose Publishing, Babylon 5 ACTA Fleetbook, 70).

 

[dag'karlove]

That's because I'm right... :wink:

You know Opinions are like Butt Holes, we all have them and they all stink

 

[k3ndawg]

You know Opinions are like Butt Holes, we all have them and they all stink

Mine's fresh and rosy... of course I shower daily unlike them cardies and clickers :lol:

 

[Da Boss]

"Captains of larger ships such as the Primus or Octurion treat themselves as mobile fortresses. With heavy weaponry on all sides, and defensive turrets and fighters ready"

I always thought that the Octurion and the Primus (pre damage increase) should have interceptors - 2 and 1 respectivly.

May need then to drop the damage of the Primus (its only 1 less than a G'Quon now), but if you gave the Octurion a 242 beam and 2 interceptors - I think It would be much better and more used ship.............

On the other hand I think the G'Qoun needs a bigger Beam - I did like someones (?) idea of making it a big beam but little else ship to fit with the power it seems to have in show ?

 

[Lord David the Denied]

Remember when a G'Quan shoots up a Primus outside the station? I recall the pulse fire it used seeming to be as nasty as the pulse fire from the Primus. Can anyome suggest any reason it only has pissant light pulse cannons and poor-man's-knoc-off ion cannons in-game?

 

[Da Boss]

It does worry me when we have two dedicated Centauri players arguing to improve a Narn ship - something is not right with the universe :wink:

OH dear perhaps another poll will arrive?

 

[Lord David the Denied]

There is something wrong, I realise, but then it'd be hardly sporting to whip the dirty creatures if their main line ships aren't actually worth using...

 

[emperorpenguin]

Remember when a G'Quan shoots up a Primus outside the station? I recall the pulse fire it used seeming to be as nasty as the pulse fire from the Primus. Can anyome suggest any reason it only has pissant light pulse cannons and poor-man's-knoc-off ion cannons in-game?

it can't have been as nasty, it needed to use a few laser shots to kill that Primus

 

[Lord David the Denied]

Did it need them, or just use them because it has them? :wink:

Seriously, I think it should get heavy pulse cannons to replace the light ones, and keep the knock-off ion cannons as a last-ditch, light defensive armament. With decent secondary firepower the low beam AD wouldn't be a huge issue.

 

[emperorpenguin]

Did it need them, or just use them because it has them? :wink:

Well we only see two uses of the pulse weapons (once to shoot down Sentris "Acts of Sacrifice" and once in "And Now For A Word")

The signature weapon of the G'Quan is the lasers, which most of us agree need the boost more

 

[Lord David the Denied]

Those are the only times we see a G'Quan engage at close range, though. Maybe the beams do need beefing up but the ship lacks any decent secondary armament at anything but spitting distance. I'm fairly sure the Narn can't be stupid enough to arm their ships so that their principle enemy can enjoy unanswered fire once they get past the beams...

 

[Foxmeister]

I'm fairly sure the Narn can't be stupid enough to arm their ships so that their principle enemy can enjoy unanswered fire once they get past the beams...

*AFTER GETTING UP OFF THE FLOOR*

I can't believe you said something that's mildly complimentary about the Narn!

Regards,

Dave

 

[Tzarevitch]

Honestly I don't think the problem is as much with the Octurion's guns as much with the fact it doesn't fit that well with centauri doctrine in that it has the dual foibles of shortish range weapons AND very low speed. It is so slow in fact that it can't support the speed 12-14 elements of the Centauri fleet at all. An APTE from a vorchan and it blazes completely out of the cover an Octurion provides.

EA, Narn and Minbari will be ripping holes into an Octurion or its fleetmates long before it can respond. Hell, a Sharlin's secondaries outrange everything an Octurion has AND it is quickler.

I'd up the Octurion's beams to 22" or 24" and crank the speed up to 7 (and crank the speed on the primus to 9). It is still short-ranged compared to nearly everyone else's heavy but at least the extra inch of move helps.

Tzarevitch

Except that, Centauri warships are supposed to be precisely as they are. Slow, lumbering bastions of firepower that nobody wants to get anywhere near. Fortresses, for the shoals of smaller, faster hunting-packs of Centauri Warships, such as the Vorchan, to work around.

The smaller vessels, like the Vorchan, are the true striking arm of the Centauri Navy. Not their heavy capitalships. Afterall, they're Centauri, not some Narn!

To quote the Centuari blip on the fleetbook:

Captains of larger ships such as the Primus or Octurion treat themselves as mobile fortresses. With heavy weaponry on all sides, and defensive turrets and fighters ready, these giants can sail carelessly into the centre of an engagement to draw a portion of fire away from the more fragile hunting packs circling the edges of a battle. Their powerful weapons should be used to finish off a limping enemy left behind after one of the hunting packs has injured and herded it into the larger ship’s field of fire. Centauri battle plans are sometimes shaped like a corkscrew, with hunting packs circling slowly inward toward the awaiting flagship in the centre.

. . .

(Mongoose Publishing, Babylon 5 ACTA Fleetbook, 70).

Actually I didn't see anything that mentioned, short-ranged or slow. All it says is that the primus and octurion are used to fly straight in and draw fire. The problem remains for game purposes it is so slow and short ranged that it isn't all that good at it. Opposing players can ignore it for far too long before it is a threat to them. It simply does not project enough power at any serious range with its weapons and it gives up too many rounds of unanswered fire before it gets in range (assuming it is facing an enemy that will let it get in range).

Comparisons:
Ship.......................Spd..............Wpn Max Range.........Total
Octurion...................6...................18............................24
BinTak.....................5...................30............................35
Omega Command.....7...................30............................37
Sharlin.....................8...................30............................38
Corumai...................6...................24............................30
Juyaca.....................5...................15............................20

And this list isn't even including the high-end war-level ships like the Warlock and the G'Vrahn.

Only the Juyaca has less range+ speed than the Octurion but it has shields to reduce long range fire and eat long-range crits. The Octurion is naked for a couple of rounds at best before it can even respond. But if the beam is increased to 24" and the speed upped to 7 it stacks up better against its contemporaries.

Tzarevitch


Tzarevitch

 

[Da Boss]

Just a bit of thread necormancy with all the work apparently going on on the update book :wink: