2nd Ed its great :D : however in an ideal world.......

[David Anla Shok']

Aren't the ABBAI a Swedish disco band?

No. I think that was the name of their corporate entity, ABBA, Inc.

 

[Lord David the Denied]

These jokes are so bad you people could get disability benefits... :?

 

[David Anla Shok']

These jokes are so bad you people could get disability benefits... :?

They get "better" once we are under the influence ;>

 

[Lord David the Denied]

Is that so? I find it difficult to believe... :?

 

[nekomata fuyu]

The lose/loose thing, whilst vaguely annoying, doesn't bother me massively. I put that down to the fact that I spent a few years living in an area where the locals would say "I won you!" instead of "I beat you!" whenever they won a game. Now that's annoying :evil:

 

[David Anla Shok']

Is that so? I find it difficult to believe... :?

I find your lack of faith disturbing..

 

[emperorpenguin]

I put that down to the fact that I spent a few years living in an area where the locals would say "I won you!" instead of "I beat you!" whenever they won a game. Now that's annoying :evil:

In Somerset or somewhere else?

That saying, "I won you", is rife in Ireland. Along with the use of "messages" as a synonym for "groceries".

 

[wyrdmaster]

In an attempt to get back on track, I think that the Octurion is a good ship. A previous post said that the Octurion needs to be supported in , battle and it can carve through a fleet. For comparison, one wouldn't send a Poseidon into battle on it's own. Sure, it carries 24 flights of a damn good fighter that can give an opposing admiral a really, really bad day but, get rid of the fighters and the Poseidon becomes a big juicy target for the big guns. That's why the canny admiral has escorting ships (note, I said escorting, not escorts. Escorting ships could refer to two Apollo Bombardment cruisers, etc.)

 

[nekomata fuyu]

I put that down to the fact that I spent a few years living in an area where the locals would say "I won you!" instead of "I beat you!" whenever they won a game. Now that's annoying :evil:

In Somerset or somewhere else?

That saying, "I won you", is rife in Ireland. Along with the use of "messages" as a synonym for "groceries".

It was up in Rochdale (Lancashire). Down here I only have to contend with comboin 'arvesters instead :lol:

 

[Lord David the Denied]

In an attempt to get back on track, I think that the Octurion is a good ship. A previous post said that the Octurion needs to be supported in , battle and it can carve through a fleet. For comparison, one wouldn't send a Poseidon into battle on it's own. Sure, it carries 24 flights of a damn good fighter that can give an opposing admiral a really, really bad day but, get rid of the fighters and the Poseidon becomes a big juicy target for the big guns. That's why the canny admiral has escorting ships (note, I said escorting, not escorts. Escorting ships could refer to two Apollo Bombardment cruisers, etc.)

Trouble with the Octurion is that it punches below its weight. It's pretty tough for its level and has a reasonable, if not spectacular, fighter compliment, but it struggles to kill ships of its own level. The 16 dice of ion cannons up front is nice, backed by 12 dice of matter cannons and 6 of precise beams, but it's all short range and most of it struggles to hit hull 6 targets. It's a great centre for a slow-moving Centauri battlegroup, but it won't be knocking down many war units.

Comparing it to the Poseidon is not the way to look at it, though. It's not a carrier, it's a dreadnought that lacks the capacity to do what dreadnoughts are meant to do - destroy opposing dreadnoughts. A battleship is not a support unit like a carrier, and escorting units are meant to shield them from enemy destroyers and cruisers, not do their work for them while the battleships kill the enemy light units.

 

[David Anla Shok']

In an attempt to get back on track, I think that the Octurion is a good ship. A previous post said that the Octurion needs to be supported in , battle and it can carve through a fleet. For comparison, one wouldn't send a Poseidon into battle on it's own. Sure, it carries 24 flights of a damn good fighter that can give an opposing admiral a really, really bad day but, get rid of the fighters and the Poseidon becomes a big juicy target for the big guns. That's why the canny admiral has escorting ships (note, I said escorting, not escorts. Escorting ships could refer to two Apollo Bombardment cruisers, etc.)

Trouble with the Octurion is that it punches below its weight. It's pretty tough for its level and has a reasonable, if not spectacular, fighter compliment, but it struggles to kill ships of its own level. The 16 dice of ion cannons up front is nice, backed by 12 dice of matter cannons and 6 of precise beams, but it's all short range and most of it struggles to hit hull 6 targets. It's a great centre for a slow-moving Centauri battlegroup, but it won't be knocking down many war units.

Comparing it to the Poseidon is not the way to look at it, though. It's not a carrier, it's a dreadnought that lacks the capacity to do what dreadnoughts are meant to do - destroy opposing dreadnoughts. A battleship is not a support unit like a carrier, and escorting units are meant to shield them from enemy destroyers and cruisers, not do their work for them while the battleships kill the enemy light units.

I concur. The Octurian is a knife fighter with a pocket knife. It probably should have had a greater ranged weapon and a little more teeth to the secondarys. Even AP would have made it more what it should be.

 

[katadder]

perhaps 24" beam and the heavy ion cannons from a secundus in its front arc?

 

[Lord David the Denied]

I'd argue for the Secundus-style heavy ion cannons in every arc, or as an additional weapon in the front arc with a suitable reduction on AD to pay for it. One of the big advantages of the Octurion is the firepower it can put out in every direction, so giving it heavy ion cannons at the front and regular ones everywhere else detracts from that purpose.

 

[David Anla Shok']

I'd argue for the Secundus-style heavy ion cannons in every arc, or as an additional weapon in the front arc with a suitable reduction on AD to pay for it. One of the big advantages of the Octurion is the firepower it can put out in every direction, so giving it heavy ion cannons at the front and regular ones everywhere else detracts from that purpose.

A beam weapon with range would be nice. But, we can make that argument for a large proportion of the Centauri fleet. I'm in the "they've pulled one too many teeth" group of thought.

 

[akenatum]

A beam weapon with range would be nice. But, we can make that argument for a large proportion of the Centauri fleet. I'm in the "they've pulled one too many teeth" group of thought.

Agreed there...

 

[Lord David the Denied]

I don't think that's true. I'd like to see ion cannons get nastier than they are - TL, DD is nice but like I say it struggles to hit high hull targets, and the visible effect a couple of ion cannon hits have on B5 itself doesn't suggest to me that they're only good for killing little ships. Likewise in season 5 we see Vorchans and Demos shoot up various ships with little apparent effort.

I don't want to go back to the Centauri Beam Team, but I would like to see a tweak to the Centauri's main weapon.

 

[David Anla Shok']

I don't think that's true. I'd like to see ion cannons get nastier than they are - TL, DD is nice but like I say it struggles to hit high hull targets, and the visible effect a couple of ion cannon hits have on B5 itself doesn't suggest to me that they're only good for killing little ships. Likewise in season 5 we see Vorchans and Demos shoot up various ships with little apparent effort.

I don't want to go back to the Centauri Beam Team, but I would like to see a tweak to the Centauri's main weapon.

Agreed. The ion cannon need AP at least. As for the beam team stuff, I see no reason for the big ships to not have a decent beam weapon.

 

[Lord David the Denied]

They don't come much bigger than the Primus, but it never uses a beam on screen. It's conceivable that the Centauri just don't use beams, but almost every other advanced race does, and we're told the Narn got laser technology from the Centauri. Although, I don't remember that being said on screen, so who knows?

Personally I don't mind not having much in the way of beams, or even going to a totally beamless Centauri fleet, the Vree do ok without beams after all. I just don't want to be relying on TL to get me the few hits I manage agaisnt high hull targets.

 

[David Anla Shok']

They don't come much bigger than the Primus, but it never uses a beam on screen. It's conceivable that the Centauri just don't use beams, but almost every other advanced race does, and we're told the Narn got laser technology from the Centauri. Although, I don't remember that being said on screen, so who knows?

Personally I don't mind not having much in the way of beams, or even going to a totally beamless Centauri fleet, the Vree do ok without beams after all. I just don't want to be relying on TL to get me the few hits I manage agaisnt high hull targets.

If not a beam then perhaps a bank of ion torpedos? Something, with more range.....

 

[Lord David the Denied]

Ballistic torpedoes would be more appropriate... I do agree, though. We never see beams but we do see (apparently very powerful) missiles and pulse weapons.