2e rookie,going into first combat

[incrdbil]

Ok, just a handful of 1e games, going for my first full scale 2e ACTA battle.

After picking up a little EA fleet (the box set, reinforcements, and a Warlock...) I am going to see if I know how to handle them.

We're doing a raid battle, nothing fancy, just a one shot to the death type game, as much a learning experience as anythign else.


I must say..bless the saint who runs www.epicarmycard.com.

Using the third age list, I'm going to field

An Avenger, two Hyperions, a Nova, and two Olympus Corvettes. Mainly because I have those models..and why the heck not.

I'm thinking of loading the Olympus corvettes up with Flash Missiles.

As for tactics..well, heck, after I get killed a few times, I'll probably figure them out. thankfully, some things are self evident. the Nova isn't all that subtle, and the basics of using a carrier seem apparent, its what to do with the fighters I wonder about. I mainly see defensive uses for them, so I pan to stick with Aurora's rather than loading on on Thunderbolts just to see them killed before they ever get in range to fire.

Oh well, plans and their survival rate with the enemy being what they are, I'm sure I'll kick myself later. I'll field a report of the disaster upon my return.

 

[Greg Smith]

With fighters it depends who you are playing. Against the Minbari, a mix of both is good - Auroras to dogfight the Nials, T/Bolts to fire on the enemy ships outside anti-fighter range. Against the Narn - T/bolts all the way, since they have no better dogfighters.

Flash missiles are a good choice for the Olympus.

Always move your Avenger first. Keep it to the rear, since it isn't a combat ship, but within 30" of the action to recover fighters. Move your Olympuses and Nova next, so that you have your Hyperions last for boresight.

And most importantly have fun!

 

[incrdbil]

well, I could be facing one of three opponents. One is using raiders, another..probably shadows, then there is a liley narn. If its the Raiders or Narn, I'll go with the T-Bolts then.

 

[Ripple]

Against all those opponents use the T-bolt. Frankly almost always use the T-bolt. Your going to have a fleet carrier on the table, so you'll be at +1 dogfight, with the T-bolts inherent +1 you fight better than all but the very best dogfighters in the game, and probably outnumber any other race in fighters. So never worry as EA about having to defend much.

Second big advantage is that once you win space superiority, the T-bolt never has to deal with anti-fighter. Depending on your opponent (some narn and raiders have okay anti-fighter) this can be a big deal. Though if he only has one anti-fighter I'd just go in for the 2 extra dice.

Minbari is about the only one I'd use the Aurora against, and even there you should outnumber him enough to make that only an option not a requirement.

Side note is the Nova is an okay choice, but once your opponents start to figure out maneuver don't be suprised if it never fires more than one arc, or in some games one shot. It works better when you have Omega's on the table that he has to close with to destroy and the Nova runs blocker to the big turrets. Hyperions don't have the range to sit behind and force folks into the guns.

Ripple

 

[incrdbil]

Well it turned into a 3 person game, the fourth didnt show. Shadows and ISA.

the workhorse of the fleet was the Nova. As the ISA went speedy to get around the shadows, I managed to stick it right inthe middle of everyone, and it went to town. The Hyperions were window dressing. Everythign out there dodged or had stealth. the Olymus Corvettes followed up the Nova and did some good work.

As for the Avenger.well, it accomplished mainly defensive work. the Shadow fighters were trounced, and even the Nials and Flyers were outnumbered, and out-scored due to numbers and the Fleet Carrier bonus. But all the accirate weapons killed the T-Bolts--the most damage they did was to a White-Star-2. If the game had went a few more turns..well, that White Star was isolated from any help, and the fighters were chipping. The Fleet Carrier bonus didnt recover any fighters--never rolled higher than a three. Lost a lot of fighters to ship explosions (forgot about how unrealistically large an area they cover) and all the accurate weaponry. I think ship explosions are a rule I can do without.

Had trouble doing damage in general. Rolled so many ones...and I found the Hyperions beam weapons to not be worth the trouble. I never won initiative, and never was going to, and even when I did hit, the beams did little. It was the bucketloads of dice from the Nova that saved the day. There would be three Novas and no Hyperions in my fleet if I knew what I did now.

The Shadows evacuated the board after their fighters were almost wiped out, and a few of the scouts hurt. I had a Hyperion down to one hull point, the other almost at crippled, a Olympus at near skeleton crew. The Nova was barely scratched, as was the Avenger, and the other Olympus. The ISA was banged up, with only a couple of ships undamaged--one of the White Stars, and soemthing else I can't recall off the top of my head. it was only notable in that it couldn't dodge, and was loaded with anti-fighter trait.

A learning experince indeed. The Shadows player seem disappointed in his fleet. I think people expect more from playing them, when they should be viewed as just another fleet.

I'm pretty much in awe of the ISA list, which, if it hadnt been so busy dealing with Shadows, would have probably trashed my fleet. Kill the Nova first, and the only threat to the Dodging ships would be gone.

 

[Ripple]

Really? Very surprising and sounds like you had bad luck with your hyperions. Nova gets eight hits vs hull 5 on average, hyperion gets 4 off the laser (damage now basically even) but also has other dice at 10 or less. Surprised.

Getting initiative is tough, but thought you had plenty of sink ships in the Olypmus and Nova.

How did you T-Bolts ever end up in front of anything with accurate. You move last and should be able to get out of the way. Just curious if you chose to 'go for a kill' or if the formation made it unavoidable.

ISA are tough, no question and you are exactly right about the shadows. They are just another fleet and wish folks would see that instead of trying to make them tough that other stuff at their own pl. (That given their fighters deserve to be worth their points and they should have a full set of choices, at least one per pl.)

Ripple

 

[Taran]

Did you forget that fighters can dodge ship explosions?

 

[incrdbil]

Really? Very surprising and sounds like you had bad luck with your hyperions. Nova gets eight hits vs hull 5 on average, hyperion gets 4 off the laser (damage now basically even) but also has other dice at 10 or less. Surprised.

the Battle Lasers were providing an average 3 -4 hits--but dodge negated most of that, or when trying for the Shadow vessels, I could never beat the stealth.

How did you T-Bolts ever end up in front of anything with accurate. You move last and should be able to get out of the way. Just curious if you chose to 'go for a kill' or if the formation made it unavoidable.

I was going for a kill, plus his speed and the 3 way battlefield made it get close quick. Still, they mopped up every fighter that tried to come my way, and some were still about harassing at the end--even after bad luck and the 'suprise' explosion that was murderously effective.

 

[incrdbil]

Did you forget that fighters can dodge ship explosions?

hmm I asked, but supposedly the person checking the book said they couldn't. I'll verify from now on.

 

[locarno24]

hmm I asked, but supposedly the person checking the book said they couldn't. I'll verify from now on.

You can't dodge an energy mine detonation, but a ship explosion you can.

The ship 'explosion' is mostly concerned with chunks of flaming wreckage that used to be the ship's hull rather than a big pulse of energy. Stealth doesn't work, but dodge and interceptors do.

the workhorse of the fleet was the Nova.

In the game you've described, it's hardly surprising. A Nova-class dreadnought is a (barely) mobile gun platform with a free fighter wing.

It's one of the best ship types for engaging agile opponents because of its wide arcs of fire and it's good in bigger, brawling engagements because it has 3 independant weapons arcs (well - ok, four. But the aft guns consist of spitballs and harsh language), so the more of them are getting to fire in a given turn, the better return you get on its cost.

The hyperion, by comparison, is a thoroughbred capital ship killer - a powerful main laser attached to sizable engines. It works best when two or more gang up on a single, big opponent, preferably something like a classical battleship or warship which isn't manouvrable enough to avoid getting centrelined by the boresight laser (especially since the Hyperions have a numerical advantage). If it's up against something more agile than it is, it can't keep its teeth lined up, and suffers badly. The fact that IA and Shadows have two of the best fleet initiative scores going doesn't help, either. Try hyperions in a higher-priority fight against brakiri, or centauri, or narn and you'll appreciate them much more. They're niether better nor worse than the Novas, just different.

Both IA and Shadow fleets at raid consist of agile, fragile and manouvrable craft with active defences (adaptive armour, stealth, dodge), and limited fighter support that can't be forced to fight a protracted battle against a single portion of your line. Nova-class are by far the better suited ship to take them on with, given that you haven't got a ship manouvrable enough to play them at their own game.

As for the Avenger.well, it accomplished mainly defensive work.

Depressing with that many thunderbolts in play.
I realise that with a sizable number of Shadow Scouts and White Stars, there's so many criss-crossing arcs of accurate weapons that dodging it all is probably impossible....if hiding behind one white star, the shadow scout firing on that white star can lob a phasing pulse round at the thud flight, and vice versa with the white star's molecular pulsars.

The Shadows evacuated the board after their fighters were almost wiped out, and a few of the scouts hurt.

Regardless of the comments on the quality of shadow fighters - which yes, do die in droves against any form of decent fighter screen - the scouts are the real power in the fleet, and personally I'd have stuck it out. I'd have been tempted not to bother with fighters, frankly.
A shadow scout is scary against white stars - accurate and double damage effectively nullify dodge and adaptive armour, leaving a super armour piercing weapon shooting at a worryingly fragile hull...

it was only notable in that it couldn't dodge, and was loaded with anti-fighter trait.

If it's from the IA fleet, it's probably a Nolo'Tar frigate. Of course, it could be an allied ship from another fleet, so it could be just about anything.

The Shadows player seem disappointed in his fleet. I think people expect more from playing them, when they should be viewed as just another fleet.

That's the problem - they are just another fleet. A raid level ship is a raid level ship is a raid level ship, regardless of which race it's from. (Unless it's a white star, which are considered one of the nastiest out there after picking up a serious boost in the new edition for no appreciable drawback)

The difference is, a raid level ship for the shadows is a light scout, and a raid level ship for you is a bloody dreadnought. If he wants to be able to play king kong with his ships, then move the game up into war and armageddon priorities, where he can use the real shadow ships with their vicious quad damage slicer beams. One of the worst massacres I've ever seen in this game was a war-priority ambush where the shadows jumped an EA fleet from hyperspace and carved four destroyers into bits in the first two turns.

Had trouble doing damage in general. Rolled so many ones

Unfortunately if the Dice Gods choose not to support you on the day, then no amount of tactical skill helps....

 

[Ripple]

I can see where if you can't make stealth the hyperion just won't cut it. But that isn't an issue with the hyperion, its an issue with dice and stealth.

Still find myself disagreeing with Locarno about nova vs hyperion for a battle vs agile opponents. The Nova does field more fighters (good!) but has shorter range and does less damage except in the narrow 10.1 to 12.0 inch range.

The hyperion does require a couple of other ships to move first (the Olympus and Avenger here serve just fine in that) but it is a double ended ship laser wise, and it's not uncommon in a fight like this to have an opponent on either side that you can get between to do the 'twin boresight' shot on. The hyperions superior maneuver over the Nova generally gets you more shots even if a few are the less powerful rear beam.

I don't know, I just keep seeing folks sing the praises of the Nova but have yet to see one be decisive in a single game, similar to our experience with the Bimith. I suppose they do soak some firepower early, but they rarely dish it out.

Good luck in the next match...

Ripple

 

[Taran]

A ship can be Very effective, even highly important without being individually decisive. It's a team thing.
Think American Football: How often is a Lineman decisive? But you wouldn't win without them.

The Nova is one of the EAs linemen...

 

[Tzarevitch]

Nova has shortish range AND is slow. ISA and Shadows are probably the best combos of speed and maneuverability in the game. I am almost surprised the Nova did anything at all. It will usually struggle to get in range of quick, agile opponents (thankfully weapon arc isn't a problem). I agree with Ripple, the hyperion is usually a better ship.

Tzarevitch

 

[incrdbil]

Well, thanks to the set up, and placement, the Nova was basically crossing the 't' of both sides--and when the IAA basically rolled up the shadows flank, they sort of did the manuevering for the Nova.

The Twin linked worked so much better against them than the Hyperiosn beam. so many hits, some are bound to get through, while the beam was just nicking them with a few hits, then the dodge kicked in.

Ok, knowing what I do about explosions, I should have had about 4-5 more fighters alive at the end joining in with the others.

I think the NOVa is worth taking if just that it makes the manueverable guys more reactive. Looks like it makes a fine anvil that I just beed to match up a hammer to go with it. I'm pretty sure next time the ISA player will be doing anythign to avoid bringing all its arcs to bear.

I'm sort of sold on the Olympus ships. Useful sinks, they actually were pretty helpful in a pinch. The Flash missiles worked well for that fight.

 

[Ripple]

I think the situation really helped the Nova play out in this case (and the dice did the hyp no favors). In a three way fight you can see where just moving to where the other two want to fight could get you range. More straight up game could be harder, as the opponent has more choices on where to go.

Dodge does work much better against small numbers of high quality AD, but usually for us it plays out that it's balanced by the first crit to get through.

Ripple

 

[angelus2000]

Novas tend to be scary when 3 factors are on the board.

1. You have 2 of them in a squadron
2. Your opponent forgot them.
3. Whoever is shooting at you is using range 12 or less guns.

Past that, they really aren't worth diddly. My list of complaints is long, although 3 spring immediately to mind. A) Lumbering sucks B) its not survivable and C) 14 AD of vanilla dice suck for something thats supposed to be a gunship. If either A or B or C were gone, I may actually use the thing again. Despite being a PITA to stay in one peice, it IS an iconic ship that at the moment is near worthless.

Of those three, I'd rather B be fixed over the other 2. Lumbering actually fits, 14 AD can do some damage. However, having watched them get crippled/skeletoned innumerable times before they even get within range to shoot is a bit disheartening. A couple of good smacks with a beam and its done for. AP/SAP/DD guns are even worse though.

 

[Ripple]

It is weird that the brawlers are the slowest ships in the game in most cases. Kind of feels weird, given you'd think to do their job they'd need speed and maneuverability.

Lumbering has made all big ships into turrets, long range weapon and lumbering is fine, medium to short range and it sucks.

Ripple

 

[Omnipotent]

I must say..bless the saint who runs www.epicarmycard.com. Very Happy

no Dilgar on 2e :?:

 

[Karhedron]

I'm sort of sold on the Olympus ships. Useful sinks, they actually were pretty helpful in a pinch. The Flash missiles worked well for that fight.

Yeah, Olympuses (Olympii?) are pretty much a staple of EA fleets for a good reason. Never leave home without a couple of them. For their level, they can put out a decent amount of hurt in any arc. Unless you are fighting an Interceptor-heavy opponent, they will usually do some respectable damage in games whilst allowing your bigger ships to line up the important boresights.

They are not the toughest ships at Skirmish PL but hey, if you opponent is shooting at them then he is not shooting at your big ships.

 

[Target]

I'm sort of sold on the Olympus ships. Useful sinks, they actually were pretty helpful in a pinch. The Flash missiles worked well for that fight.

Yeah, Olympuses (Olympii?) are pretty much a staple of EA fleets for a good reason. Never leave home without a couple of them. For their level, they can put out a decent amount of hurt in any arc. Unless you are fighting an Interceptor-heavy opponent, they will usually do some respectable damage in games whilst allowing your bigger ships to line up the important boresights.

They are not the toughest ships at Skirmish PL but hey, if you opponent is shooting at them then he is not shooting at your big ships.

They are damn good ships. Knock the hell out my Vorchans a lot of the time.