2e release

[Admiral Phlop]

Does anyone know if the 2e is going to be separate books and sold as individual items or packaged as one set, with the price as for each book or separately. Thanks.

 

[tneva82]

Does anyone know if the 2e is going to be separate books and sold as individual items or packaged as one set, with the price as for each book or separately. Thanks.

Looking at the release schedelude and sign&portents article seems like rulebook and fleet book separatly.

 

[prelude_to_war]

If this is any indication:

 

[Valen is my name]

where did those pictures come from?

 

[Tzarevitch]

The one on the fleet book looks like Bablyon 4, presumably after it was shifted into the past since we can see Vorlon and Shadow vessels and a couple of silhouettes that look vaguely like Nials.

Tzarevitch

 

[Lord David the Denied]

Didn't the Vorlons and Shadows refrain from fighting each other directly in the last war? I seem to recall something being said about them only engaging each other in the final war at Sheridan's urging...

 

[tneva82]

Didn't the Vorlons and Shadows refrain from fighting each other directly in the last war? I seem to recall something being said about them only engaging each other in the final war at Sheridan's urging...

Well Minbari's probably wouldn't have defeated Shadows in last shadow war with help of the vorlons if Vorlons wouldn't have got themselves involved?

Similary the other ancients(which Ivanova and Lorien hired out) were presumably involved there as well.

Presumably Vorlons aren't eager to join in and probably came to Minbari's help only because they were losing big time before B4 and Vorlons got involved.

 

[Valen is my name]

yeah, according to SFoS the shadows did not fight one another directly until the shadows stepped up their campaign and sheridan pressured them into showing their strength. Before, the only time first ones had fought each other was the kirshaic (sp?) uprising (which led to most of the first ones leaving or becoming even more secretive and hidden), and even in the first shadow war they never fought each other, instead the vorlons sent dreams to the minbari and 'stole' babylon 4 and sinclair/valen for them.

 

[Lord David the Denied]

That the Vorlons were involved is indisputable, but if you actually read what I said, you'll see that I wondered if they fought the Shadows directly.

It's entirely possible that the Shadows and Vorlons never fought each other, rather fighting against each other's minion races. Whole races were wiped out in the last war, and this is probably how it happened.

 

[tneva82]

yeah, according to SFoS the shadows did not fight one another directly until the shadows stepped up their campaign and sheridan pressured them into showing their strength. Before, the only time first ones had fought each other was the kirshaic (sp?) uprising (which led to most of the first ones leaving or becoming even more secretive and hidden), and even in the first shadow war they never fought each other, instead the vorlons sent dreams to the minbari and 'stole' babylon 4 and sinclair/valen for them.

I very much doubt mere dreams would help Minbari's who were losing BIG TIME in previous shadow war...

And B4 was stolen by Sheridan&co because ancient records showed Delenn that they had to. Self-fulfilling cycle.

 

[Valen is my name]

If SFoS is correct, then so is lord david, it says the vorlon allied force, consisting of babylon 4 and early minbari ships forced the shadows back. it also says that the vorlons gave them supperior numbers, but the vorlons never fought, which is why on page 110 it says

"when these unbelievably terrible warships began to clah, this new Shadow War had set a new precedent - the First Ones were fighting directly against one another."

This shows that they had never actually fought each other before, instad the vorlons helped the minbari to do it.

 

[tneva82]

If SFoS is correct, then so is lord david, it says the vorlon allied force, consisting of babylon 4 and early minbari ships forced the shadows back. it also says that the vorlons gave them supperior numbers, but the vorlons never fought, which is why on page 110 it says

SFOS is Mongoose product though. Unofficial. Non-canonical. Vorlons didn't get involved with the stealing of B4 for example except by choosing to be present during Valen's introduction.

 

[Valen is my name]

how is it un-official if they own the rights to publish books with b5 info in them?

 

[tneva82]

how is it un-official if they own the rights to publish books with b5 info in them?

It's not exactly approved by JMS...

Okay: Small correction: Official but non-canonical.

 

[Lord David the Denied]

AoG material is approved by JMS, but Mongoose has discarded much of it and much of the rest is rejected by many people here. What's canon is what's in the series... and a lot of that doesn't tally with this game.

 

[Triggy]

AoG material is approved by JMS, but Mongoose has discarded much of it and much of the rest is rejected by many people here. What's canon is what's in the series... and a lot of that doesn't tally with this game.

And several (but not all) of the books and all of the TV movies.

 

[Lord David the Denied]

Obviously.

 

[cordas]

Its been a while since I have seen Baylon Squared, but I am sure I remember it being said in that the Minbari and Vorlons where fighting the Shaodws and loosing until B4 turned up.

I am also curious as to what difference B4 could really have made.... yeah it was a BIG space station (a fair bit bigger than B5) but it was only built using then current Earth tech which I somehow doubt would have bothered the Shadows that much.... Unless those Vorlons who turned up with Valen did a bit of refiting the space station when it was in transit...

 

[Burger]

From War Without End:

The last Shadow war nearly ended in defeat when the command center, a Minbari space station, was destroyed by Shadow forces. But shortly thereafter, a replacement arrived out of nowhere: Babylon 4. With Babylon 4 in place, the Minbari, the Vorlons, and their allies were able to drive the Shadows off Z'ha'dum and destroy a good two-thirds of the Shadows' warships. Until Delenn arrived at Babylon 5, the origin of the replacement station was a mystery to the Minbari.

 

[tneva82]

I am also curious as to what difference B4 could really have made.... yeah it was a BIG space station (a fair bit bigger than B5) but it was only built using then current Earth tech which I somehow doubt would have bothered the Shadows that much.... Unless those Vorlons who turned up with Valen did a bit of refiting the space station when it was in transit...

It wasn't so much of it's fighting abilities(though it was more heavily armed than B5) but command & control abilities.

In every war command & control is most crucial aspect. Without it your fleets and armies are pretty much useless. Minbari had lost their previous c&c center which made organising war effort pretty tough.

B4 gave them new command&control center.