2e Race Admirals

[Clanger]

Has anyone done a list of special admirals for 2nd edition races (ie like Sheridan G'Sten, Deathwalker)?

Also on the subject of Admirals. The Narn G'Sten, he has super luck (much better than the listed luck). Is he broken or was the description not proof read? As I have only known 2e, I have no idea if this was cribbed from 1e.

 

[Burger]

G'Sten is very good, yes. His Lucky is better than the standard Lucky, but his Revered Leader is not as good (if he is comanding a big fleet). He also has 4 leader traits

 

[Misiolak]

Remember, G'Sten has a very limited list of ship types he can command...

 

[Clanger]

Misiolak said.

Remember, G'Sten has a very limited list of ship types he can command...

The same is for Sheridan as well. He has a limited number of ships he can command.

This should not be an excuse for G'Sten to be broken

 

[H]

Misiolak said.

Remember, G'Sten has a very limited list of ship types he can command...

The same is for Sheridan as well. He has a limited number of ships he can command.

This should not be an excuse for G'Sten to be broken

but then he's no more or less broken than many other ships in the game

 

[Burger]

What G'Sten gains in terms of his traits, he loses in flexibility. You are fixed to a set of admiral traits, whereas if you take a generic "lucky" admiral, you get less rerolls, but you get to choose whichever other traits you like.

 

[Z Baron]

Forget not Jha'Dur's "Vengeful" ability - if you cripple a ship, you may immediately attack again with a single weapon system to try to finish it off.

G'Sten is tame in comparison.

Mind you - I don't really think the Admirals are broken per se, as they certainly add to the tactical considerations of the game.

And I, for one, love a good challenge.

 

[Gunnvaldr]

Form the named characters, I comteplated of making special admiral traits specific to your race/fleet

 

[Taran]

Jha'Dur is crazy strong. Any Dilgar fleet with an admiral that doesn't have her is being less than efficient with their selections...
Not only does she have her Vengeance trait, but she is also bloody hard to kill with the ability to switch ships in the middle of a game instead of dieing with her flagship...

 

[Ripple]

Yep...an Admiral that effectively doubles your best AD, and can switch ships is pretty damn powerful.

I don't like the Admiral rules, I see too many possibilities for broken combos developing. Just because we haven't found them yet doesn't mean they aren't out there.

Ripple

 

[Burger]

Jha'Dur only gets to re-fire if her ship cripples an enemy. That is not very often.

 

[Triggy]

Yep...an Admiral that effectively doubles your best AD, and can switch ships is pretty damn powerful.

I don't like the Admiral rules, I see too many possibilities for broken combos developing. Just because we haven't found them yet doesn't mean they aren't out there.

Ripple

They were playtested reasonably and nothing major was found (touch wood). They tended not to be favourite choices due to it meaning a player has fewer ships on the table but their combat effectiveness is decidedly decent.

 

[Da Boss]

Jha'Dur only gets to re-fire if her ship cripples an enemy. That is not very often.

hmm not in my rulebook - it says -

"Whenever a ship in the Dilgar fleet cripples an enemy it may immediately fire one weapon system at it again."

 

[Ripple]

That was my understanding, 'any ship in the Dilgar fleet', not just her ship.

I have some faith in the play testers ability to spot issues, but there are so many combo's here, I think it was simply not physically possible for you to have worked through even a basic majority of them. Good testing is about isolating one change at a time and figuring its impact...the more wheels you have spinning the harder it gets.

Add in that a few testers have all commented on the idea that they were not favored picks and I wonder how many actual trials they got vs how much of an opinion developed over their worth. See Vorchan vs Demos debate for signs of a things going through that fail the common sense test, either due to hidden changes, or self reinforcing assumptions. See the gaim suicide fighter discussion for example of different players operating with different assumptions on what was fact (stem or base?).

Not slamming here...literally just so many wheels, each with it's own nuances to be understood...it would be hard for any individual to catch all the ideas. Group concerns being what they are, folks get caught up in a mentality that needs outside perspectives. In this case, the secondary observers didn't have time to add much.

Ripple

 

[katadder]

ok you get to fire a ship again if you cripple a target. this versus taking another ship of that PL which would allow you to fire the same weapon twice anyway, plus gain an init sink. there is not an admiral out there better than taking another ship. ok they have their uses but not better than another ship

 

[Greg Smith]

Add in that a few testers have all commented on the idea that they were not favored picks and I wonder how many actual trials they got vs how much of an opinion developed over their worth.

We used admirals during playtesting a lot. They were really good and were a very valid choice. Then they were restricted to highest level ships and we stopped. They were worth putting on a skirmish level ship and granting benefits to the rest of the fleet, but at the cost of your highest level ship, they were no longer nearly as good. It is a shame because having an admiral with his abilities was a lot of fun to select and play.

 

[Z Baron]

ok you get to fire a ship again if you cripple a target. this versus taking another ship of that PL which would allow you to fire the same weapon twice anyway, plus gain an init sink. there is not an admiral out there better than taking another ship. ok they have their uses but not better than another ship

Ahhhh... but the beauty is that it's not just a ship, it's any ship - potentially all ships! Anything that the Dilgar cripple are likely to go BOOM!!!!

Yes, it's nasty. Nastier than a similar ship of the same PL, even. But I think it's fun and interesting, and if you really don't like it, just ask your opponent not to play it.

Remember, the rules are all about options, and when you're sitting down at the table, the rules are what you say they are, rather than what some musty book tells you they are.

 

[Triggy]

Add in that a few testers have all commented on the idea that they were not favored picks and I wonder how many actual trials they got vs how much of an opinion developed over their worth.

We used admirals during playtesting a lot. They were really good and were a very valid choice. Then they were restricted to highest level ships and we stopped. They were worth putting on a skirmish level ship and granting benefits to the rest of the fleet, but at the cost of your highest level ship, they were no longer nearly as good. It is a shame because having an admiral with his abilities was a lot of fun to select and play.

That decision was a toughie. I'm with you that restricting it to just the largest ship was too much but allowing admirals on 2-for-1 Patrol ships in a huge fleet was too far the other way as well.

 

[Da Boss]

I still think this (below) was a nice solution ?

Admirals:
Any fleet of at least 5 Fleet Allocation points in size may include a single Admiral to lead it. He is placed on one ship and will raise its Priority Level by one, so a Raid level ship will become a Battle level ship, a Battle level ship will become a War level ship, and so on. An Armageddon level ship will take both an Armageddon level slot and a Battle level slot. An Admiral must be placed on a ship with the Command trait or the highest Priority Level ship in the fleet (before the ship’s Priority Level is increased by the presence of the Admiral).


Well stuck it in Darkness Rising anyway

 

[Sulfurdown]

Add in that a few testers have all commented on the idea that they were not favored picks and I wonder how many actual trials they got vs how much of an opinion developed over their worth.

We used admirals during playtesting a lot. They were really good and were a very valid choice. Then they were restricted to highest level ships and we stopped. They were worth putting on a skirmish level ship and granting benefits to the rest of the fleet, but at the cost of your highest level ship, they were no longer nearly as good. It is a shame because having an admiral with his abilities was a lot of fun to select and play.

That decision was a toughie. I'm with you that restricting it to just the largest ship was too much but allowing admirals on 2-for-1 Patrol ships in a huge fleet was too far the other way as well.

The 2-1 Ships I still find questionable. Fighters, yes, Capital ships...