If there are like minded people, there is nothing to discuss, as they all agree with you already. What evidence do you see of Nationalism in decline? I haven't seen any, if anything we are more nationalistic than ever before, just ask Putin about that if you doubt me. As for not needing money, okay, if you need a laser pistol the store owner gives you one for free, as he says money is of little import and he doesn't need to make money, so he just gives stuff to all his customers for free, and they keep coming back, imagine that, and Santa always makes a delivery down the chimney to replace those items he gave away. As for the NSL, what's to discuss, the stars are there so they should be on the map if the game purports to be a realistic near future setting, so if new stars are discovered, they are simply added to the map, if that inconveniences people too bad!hiro said:One of the things I love about science fiction is its all about a future and its fiction.
In my fiction filled future I'd love to see the decline of nationalism and other useless constructs, yeah, money, I am talking about you...
Is that realistic? In my life time? Hell no!
Do I care?
Hell no!
It's a game, make it what you want it to be. Discuss it with like minded people to help you develop the ideas...
Please, skip the history, there was a wealth of discussion about the flaws of The Game and the superpowers it spawned and countries it divided. Can we get back to the NSL please?
I'll have to see if I can find a 2d map using the original star list at some point and see how it compares.hiro said:Yeah, that's true but then you're just increasing the work load and covering up holes you just created which seems counter intuitive to me.
3-d star maps will always hold more stars, and it is much easier just to list the stars and their 3-d coordinates than to actually put them on a map that means anything.Rick said:I'll have to see if I can find a 2d map using the original star list at some point and see how it compares.hiro said:Yeah, that's true but then you're just increasing the work load and covering up holes you just created which seems counter intuitive to me.
hiro said:Dragoner
How would you present a 3d map to your players?
Ya know, just if you wanted to...
Rick said:Tom - whoa there hoss. First things first - if I have a list of stars, I can work out the distance between 2 of them using their coordinates without needing it drawn on a 3d map. What I need a 2d map for is to identify which stars are relatively near to each other in an approximate way, so I know which ones to look up on the list of stars. I find this method works just about fine for me.
Yes. I know how to do it. I was just trying to explain that a 3d map was superfluous for my requirements. I'm sure other gamers find them essential, but I'm perfectly fine as I am. End of.Tom Kalbfus said:Rick said:Tom - whoa there hoss. First things first - if I have a list of stars, I can work out the distance between 2 of them using their coordinates without needing it drawn on a 3d map. What I need a 2d map for is to identify which stars are relatively near to each other in an approximate way, so I know which ones to look up on the list of stars. I find this method works just about fine for me.
The first one gives you 3-d coordinates, the x-y plane is the Galactic Plane, you get polar coordinates from that, the solid lines go up from that and the dotted lines go down. The polar coordinates measure angle and radius from sol of their flat components, you measure the length of the vertical lines to get the distance above or below the polar coordinate plane. You can find the distance between any two stars with geometry and triangles, remembering that the lengths of the sides of the triangle are proportionate to their opposite angles, you already have the angle from the origin and you have the lengths of two sides of the triangle, and from that you can determine the length of the third side, which is the distance between the two stars in question, then you can use Pythagorean theorem to determine the distance between two stars with the difference in vertical distance from the plane.
Imagine if they used Traveller's Jump Drive with that map. It would effectively eliminate the arms.Reynard said:For me, 2D is for ease while 3D adds realism. Players only need to know if they can get from here to there in some time frame. The referee wants to know how systems interact by distance and limitations on starship engines and fuel to determine how a game will go. A 3D map is for the adventurous referees.
Reynard said:As I talked about on another thread a while back, that's exactly what I did. Not the Enterprise thread though that followed some of what I did earlier.
I took the NSL and put it in a spreadsheet then went through each cell that represented distance between every two system and determined the Jump number. Had to play with the Jumps because Alpha Centauri is not Jump one. The hand drawn map for that is on Yahoo group. This is why I'd like to see how much the Trade and Communication routes have changes with the new NSL.
Just think, by having the Jump Drive invented in 2063, we're missing out on Bussard Ramjets.Reynard said:Bussard ramjet?
"You could reintepret the meaning of Jump-1 to mean that 1 parsec is the average distance of Jump-1, meaning it goes from 0.50 tp 1.49 parsecs, Jump-2 goes from 1.5 to 2.49 parsecs and so on"
And that's what I did. Jump 1 = 1.5 PC, etc. Just enough to make the system work with real space.