2 questions, ready weapon and the rest of the team

[xbowmen]

When a team of four has one gunner that has to ready a weapon, can the rest of the members of the team move or shoot?

Is there any modifiers for shooting at a target at higher elevations? Any modifiers for shoting targets at a lower elevation?

These 2 questions were the only problems we had in our first game of BE.
Thanks
Den

 

[britneyfan97]

There are reportedly other benefits to the rest of the team so that the teams Ready action is not so 'wasted' on them - We just have to wait for the advanced rules.

 

[xbowmen]

britneyfan97
Mongoose


Joined: 02 Jun 2005
Posts: 189

Posted: Sun Mar 25, 2007 2:19 pm Post subject:

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There are reportedly other benefits to the rest of the team so that the teams Ready action is not so 'wasted' on them - We just have to wait for the advanced rules.

Great, so how do I play it for now? I've plan to run many games before month of May comes around when we can buy the advance rules book. Can't Mongoose answer these questions so we can promote their BE game and have answer to this question which I know will come up again and again.
Den

 

[The Old Soldier]

There are quite a few questions, that will be answered in the advanced rulebook, including I hope Hard cover such as building which presently the line of sight rules do not cover. That said,

Just make up what you want to use. For example, your problem you could either let the rest of the team act, OR not. If not give them a bonus like they can re-roll all thier misses if readied. Stuff like that.

Sorry I can't give you anything official.

 

[Outkast_Samurai]

I have a feeling that by the time the advanced rules come out every group that plays will have a set of house rules for different situations. The difficulties with those are going to be getting everyone on the same page when travelling to game and when house rules people like better than the rules in the book.

 

[Shadow4ce]

The readied MG teams only break readiness if they move. What the rest of the team does will not effect them whatsoever, unless the leader moves more than 12" away if you are using USMC/EFTF, 6" otherwise. Or, you can of course break them off into sections per their individual cards instructions; then let the rest of the squad that is not in their specific section go galavanting around to wherever you feel they need to go.

Yet another example of a clearly written rule which we arm-chair generals are OVERthinking. This game is simple if we keep it simple. If we over-analyze every little detail, it's going to soon become to cumbersome to play and still finish in a reasonable enough time to say "That was fun! Let's play it again!"

 

[lastbesthope]

When a team of four has one gunner that has to ready a weapon, can the rest of the members of the team move or shoot?

Is there any modifiers for shooting at a target at higher elevations? Any modifiers for shoting targets at a lower elevation?

These 2 questions were the only problems we had in our first game of BE.
Thanks
Den

1) No all members of the nuit must currently take the same action.

2) Not yet, though it looks like there might be in the Advanced book.

LBH

 

[Shadow4ce]

1) No all members of the nuit must currently take the same action.

LBH, I totally respect your knowledge, but where in the rules does it state this, as it makes no sense whatsoever and the unit card refers to "this weapon" and "this model" not the "unit with this weapon" or the "unit with this model." While I can see an entire unit being part of the ready action to set the MG up (mates helping one another), Once that baby is set up, why would men not running the MG be forced to fire only one direction and not move? It totally defeats their purpose for being with the MG, as they are now just part of a big target (MGs get lots of attention).

If I were shooting a SAW I'd dang sure want my squaddies to be a screening force who were watching and firing into every sector, especially on my flanks! I'd want them close enough to screen for me, but not so close we make an attractive grenade or RPG target! Not to mention, once I have those cretins suppressed, the rest of the team should move up and annihilate them!

 

[Outkast_Samurai]

Its sad but the main rules do say that the entire unit has to perform the same action.

If you give a move action to a squad that has a MG that is readied unless you have them broken off into a fire team they have counted as moving even if they don't budge an inch themselves.

 

[Shadow4ce]

Outkast_Samurai you are correct. I just read that rule.

But, how literal are we interpreting this rule? How many of you, when your unit performs a move action, move every single model the same distance in the same direction? I've yet to see it happen in a single game. I can see where if the rest of the unit is moving, your MG can't be firing, and you can say he is part of his unit's move action, but why would you have to move the model and destroy his readines?

Another example of the silliness of this is many times I've seen games where a player has left his unit leader under cover whilst the rest of the squad moved up. Did the unit move? Most certainly. Did all the models in the unit move? No.

I'm not usually a rules lawyer, and I hate threads that turn into rules arguments, but this one is bad enough to almost be a game breaker for me. While I don't have to have 100% accuracy and am aware it is a game and not a perfect simulation, rules that fly so far in the face of reality are not received well.

As battlefields are fluid, not everyone will stay put where they are as their enemy shifts. If this is the case, we should allow for a Gunner and 1 other model as a loader to be considered a unit. Similar better apply for a Sniper and his spotter. If they include more than 2 men in a sniper unit, then we might as well allow plasma rifles and jetpacks.

May can't get here soon enough I suppose. I have faith the ARB will clear the many questions we're running into up and not create even more.

 

[lastbesthope]

1) No all members of the nuit must currently take the same action.

LBH, I totally respect your knowledge, but where in the rules does it state this

On the right half of the first page, right at the start of the Actions section:

Actions
Whenever you decide to do something with a unit in your army, it will have two Actions – every model in the same unit will perform the same action.

Less (but not too much less) respecting of me, more reading of the rules :lol:

You'd be amazed how many people think I have an encyclopaedic knowledge of the rules, you know how I get it? I read them carefully. I got a rep a while back as being the first stop to ask questions on the A:2089 RPG from Mongoose. Y'know how many times I've read those books properly? None, but I can use an index where there is one and use my eyes where there isn't.

Not meaning to get at you, you're far from being the only one who does this sort of thing, and I'm happy to help people out in finding rules, but when it's only 2 sides of A3, you'd think my work would already be done, ah well :wink:

LBH

 

[lastbesthope]

If you give a move action to a squad that has a MG that is readied unless you have them broken off into a fire team they have counted as moving even if they don't budge an inch themselves.

Actually that's wrong, while the gunner is considered to have taken a move action along with the rest of the squad, so long as the gunner model does not actually move then he retains the bonus dice and suppression capability. Matthew Sprange has ruled on this.

You'll note the rules on the card say the bonus dice are lost until the model moves. not the model takes a move action, not the unit takes a move4 action, not any other model in the unit moces, but only when that model moves.

And just to restate a related ruling from Matt, when you take the Ready action for the gunner you DO NOT get to alter his facing, that has to be done as part of a Move action, so when you're moving you r gunners, think carefully about how you place them.

LBH

 

[Shadow4ce]

LBH, I totally respect your knowledge, but where in the rules does it state this

On the right half of the first page, right at the start of the Actions section:

Thanks, but Outkast_Samurai already beat you to this, at about the same time I reread it myself btw.

Less (but not too much less) respecting of me, more reading of the rules :lol:

You'd be amazed how many people think I have an encyclopaedic knowledge of the rules, you know how I get it? I read them carefully. I got a rep a while back as being the first stop to ask questions on the A:2089 RPG from Mongoose. Y'know how many times I've read those books properly? None, but I can use an index where there is one and use my eyes where there isn't.

Wow, I never would have thought of that, seeing as how the rules of BF:Evo have no index. Did you hurt your elbow patting yourself on the back there? j/k :lol:

Not meaning to get at you, you're far from being the only one who does this sort of thing, and I'm happy to help people out in finding rules, but when it's only 2 sides of A3, you'd think my work would already be done, ah well :wink:

LBH

I'm sure glad you weren't "meaning" to get at me. Especially after the respect I showed you. I'd hate to see what you'd come up with if I'd been snarky, hehe.

For the record, I've read more rules than most people I know. I have been wargaming since 1976 when my parents bought me Squad Leader and Panzerblitz for my 10th birthday. I've probably forgotten more rules than most folks have read. I own over 300 wargames, most of which have either 32-64 page rulebooks, and I've read most RPG's created prior to 2001 and all of their supplements. You'll have to forgive me for not being perfect and having an eidic memory. We should all keep in mind that just because a person is new to the Mongoose forums, doesn't mean they are new to Mongoose Games or to wargaming. They might be new to the forums because they have found that the anonymity given by the internet makes people far more arrogant and rude than they are in real life, and everyone thinks they are an expert on everything.

(There, now my elbow hurts too). :lol: :wink: :lol:

LBH, I was still typing this and was about to ask you:

"Is there a rule which clearly states I'm interpreting the special rule on the card wrong or right?"

When I noticed another post by you clearing this up the way I was interpreting it all along. So glad I wasn't misleading new converts in my demos. Thank you so much for looking into this for us. Best news I heard all day, as this really would have hurt my love of this great game. Tell Matthew Sprange thanks for me next time you see him also.

 

[xbowmen]

So when a model ready a weapon, NO ACTION is done by the other members of that unit. Right? Logically I would think that as a support weapon is ready, the other members would be allow to move into a better defensive position.

As far as firing at targets at a higher elevation Logic would dictate a +1 to the target target and kill number. I wish Mongoose just answer this question, i'll promise to buy the advance rule book still.
Thanks to all for your responses.
Den

 

[Lorcan Nagle]

when the LMGs/SAWs are readied, the other squad members also count as readied. While this leads to no noticeable bonus in the basic rules, there's a few advantages that can be gained under the advanced rules.

 

[xbowmen]

[While this leads to no noticeable bonus in the basic rules, there's a few advantages that can be gained under the advanced rules.
quote]

Since we yanks can not get our hands on the advance rules until May, what are the advantages for non gunner members of the unit?
Den

 

[Lorcan Nagle]

Nobody outside playtesters has the advanced rulebook until may.

 

[Mr Evil]

they get to eat there cheese and pickle sanwiches while the gunner sets up his weapon, sounds good to me

 

[Mr Evil]

on a serouse note ive not yet set up a gunners weapon while in sight or range of the enemy, its more a preperation move than a mid combat move

 

[cordas]

Currently being readied gives no bonuses.

I have heard it said by some of the play testers that the advanced rules will allow other models to do things with the ready action. In one of the previews of the Advanced rules it has stated that infantry units in the open may take a ready action and then move and claim obscurement, I don't think its a stretch to say that the unit takes a READY action and different models may use it different ways, some taking advantage of what little cover is available to gain obscurement whilst the one with the MG sets it up. They could also bring in the rule from SST that allows readied models to re-roll misses (a MG might not count as readied in this regard as it setup the game rather than taking aim).