Worst Pastiche Ideas

L

Lucius

Mongoose
Whilst skimming Road of Kings yesterday, I was disgusted to learn of the apparent Wyvern riders near a range of mountains South of the Black Kingdoms. Presumming this is an idea from a pastiche, I'm intrigued to know what other ridiculously non Hyborian ideas have been used in other novels.

I recall Vincent mentioning something about White, Grey and Black mages from Corinthia in another thread.

Any others? What's the worst you've read/heard?
 
While I dislike de Camp and Carter's wyverns and utterly dispise Steve Perry's Squares, the pastiche idea I dislike the most is that Crom is real and cares and is some sort of 'good-guy.'

I enjoyed Conan the Avenger (the Return of Conan) until the end, where Crom proclaims Conan to be special to him and rescues him in one of the worst deus ex machina endings I have ever read. Then Conan sacrifices a bull to him (which seems to happen a lot in the pastiches), which is contrary to Howard - he states that the Cimmerians do not actually worship Crom out of fear that they might attract his attention, and he would then send them dooms. A lot of pastiches have turned Crom into a 'good-guy' god who actually helps Conan. The TV series took this approach as well.

I hate that. That is the pastiche idea I dislike the most, even worse than Steve Perry's DnD style Conan. (Although I don't care for most of Steve Perry's Conan work, I did like his Star Wars novel, Shadows of the Empire. His tendency to include non-human main characters works better in the Star Wars universe than it does in the Conan universe.)
 
If you like (bad) pastiches, give a try to Conan and the Death Lord of Thanza.
I read the book 5-6 months ago and I was so disgusted that I didn't have the will to read any other pastiche.
The great villain is a magician in a skull allying with a living magician. Together they separate a mountain from its base and fly away using it as a flying citadel.
There were some philosophical reflexion from Conan who wondered whether a dead but animated skeletton could be evil or good.

Conan the Indomtable from Perry was also a pastiche from the "worst of" category. Conan kills a huge fish and uses it as a boat and encounters big talking worms working for a necromancer sex-obsessed woman.
 
the pastiche idea I dislike the most is that Crom is real and cares and is some sort of 'good-guy.'
Click to expand...

True, I had forgotten these things.

Not just Crom, but all the gods should remain offstage in Hyborian tales. If a "god" actually makes an appearance it should be a demon or similar entity revered as a god.
 
The King said:
If you like (bad) pastiches, give a try to Conan and the Death Lord of Thanza.
I read the book 5-6 months ago and I was so disgusted that I didn't have the will to read any other pastiche.
The great villain is a magician in a skull allying with a living magician. Together they separate a mountain from its base and fly away using it as a flying citadel.
There were some philosophical reflexion from Conan who wondered whether a dead but animated skeletton could be evil or good.

Conan the Indomtable from Perry was also a pastiche from the "worst of" category. Conan kills a huge fish and uses it as a boat and encounters big talking worms working for a necromancer sex-obsessed woman.
Click to expand...

YIKES! Never read any of these. The only non-Howard I've read is Carter and DeCampe. Well, I guess I've also read Conan the Magnificent by Robert Jordan, but that was twenty years ago. I was in grade school and didn't understand a bit of it and can't recall if it was good or bad. :) I have to admit that when DeCamp is keeping things simple, some of his stories can be okay (The Thing in the Crypt comes to mind). It was when he tried to write complex stories where huge events took place within Conan's life that his works started to get alittle "out there".

Ah, but how 'bout this little gem: "Conan of Venarium" 2003 by Harry Turtledove. I saw this at a bookstore once and just about fainted. I've never read it, but it has to be up there with the worst Conan pastiches ever.

Here's the Amazon description of this young Conan story:

"Editorial Reviews

From Publishers Weekly
Master alternative historian Turtledove (American Empire) attempts to inject some life into the well-trod Conan sequel subgenre, but this coming-of-age story of Robert E. Howard's barbarian hero is, alas, just as commonplace as all the other imitations by the late Lin Carter and company. Expansion-minded Aquilonians have invaded and occupied Fort Venarium in southern Cimmeria. Their lecherous commander, Count Stercus, seizes a pretty local girl at whom Conan has often gazed silently, like any tongue-tied teenage boy. You can bet the shy, untried Conan will take on the dastardly count, but will he get the girl? Later, Conan fights with the northern Cimmerians, who have gathered to drive out the Aquilonians. Eventually finding himself alone on the cusp of manhood, he realizes that his life will always be that of a wanderer and a thief. The fantasy elements are disappointingly few-a demonic bird, a huge venomous snake, a seer who foretells the boy's incredible future, a vision of a ruined temple that disappears as suddenly as it appears. Only Conan diehards and Turtledove completists will be likely to pick up this sword-with-little-sorcery novel.
Copyright 2003 Reed Business Information, Inc.

Product Description:

A new Conan adventure--from one of today's most popular writers of fantasy and SF!

For decades, millions of readers have thrilled to the adventures of Conan, the barbarian adventurer invented by Robert E. Howard and further chronicled by other fantasy greats, including such notables as L. Sprague de Camp, Poul Anderson, and Robert Jordan.

Now Harry Turtledove, one of today's most popular writers of fantasy and SF, contributes a novel to the Conan saga--a tale of Conan in his youth, in the year or so before he becomes the wandering adventurer we know from the tales of Howard and others.

On the verge of adulthood, he lives in a Cimmerian hamlet, caring for his ailing mother, working in his father's smithy, and casting his eye on the weaver's daughter next door.
Then war comes: an invasion by the Aquilonian Empire. Conan burns to join the fight, but he's deemed too young. Then, from the border country, comes an unbelievable report: The Aquilonians have smashed the Cimmerian defending forces, and can rule as they please. Soon their heavily garrisoned forts dot the countryside. Their settlers follow after, carving homesteads out of other men's land.

Every Cimmerian longs to drive the intruders out with fire and sword, but they must stay their hands, for the Aquilonians have promised savage reprisals. Then, intolerably, the Aquilonian commander takes a wholly dishonorable interest in the weaver's daughter -- and he's not a man to wait, or even ask permission.

It's not a recipe for a peaceable outcome."

:roll: :roll: :roll:
 
ReptileJK said:
Ah, but how 'bout this little gem: "Conan of Venarium" 2003 by Harry Turtledove. I saw this at a bookstore once and just about fainted. I've never read it, but it has to be up there with the worst Conan pastiches ever. :roll: :roll: :roll:
Click to expand...

Check out this review of that book, a review I think is extremely accurate:
http://www.dodgenet.com/~moonblossom/Cmuse13.html

Turtledove's Conan may well be the worst ever written, worse even than Roland Green's writings. Just like Green, Turtledove apparently did no research before undertaking his novel.
 
VincentDarlage said:
Check out this review of that book, a review I think is extremely accurate:
http://www.dodgenet.com/~moonblossom/Cmuse13.html

Turtledove's Conan may well be the worst ever written, worse even than Roland Green's writings. Just like Green, Turtledove apparently did no research before undertaking his novel.
Click to expand...

One would think, but according to his bio, he's a "life-long Conan fan". :roll:

I'm going to check out the review right now...........
 
I just started reading Turtledove's book (not seeing this thread first) from the library and I did wonder about the "lack of hardship" in his village. I am going to read the rest of it and try to take it for what it is a story. I do love Dr. Turtledove's other books so I am hoping to like this for maybe an alternate reality version.....
 
Just read the review....I'm all for giving new things a chance, but boy am I glad I decided NEVER to pay money for that book.
 
This reminds me: what do you all think of Robert Jordan's Conan stories?

Like I said previously, I read Conan the Magnificent (I even still have the book), but I read it so long ago and when I was pretty young. I don't remember a thing about it. How does he measure up as far as pastiches go?

Reptile
 
Oh yeah, before I forget, I found this listing on Amazon.com of the worst Conan books. Don't know how accurrate they are as the compiler simply used online reviews.

Enjoy:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/guides/guide-display/-/BDNL460NB1K2/ref=cm_bg_guides/102-5795435-7964139
 
For those who are interested, the following link ges to a collection of scripts that were written by a couple of Conan fans. They cover the time of Conan's birth up through the destruction of Venarium.
Much better then Turtledove's attempt, they are much more in keeping with the material established by Howard.

http://www.conan.no/Screenplays.html
 
ReptileJK said:
This reminds me: what do you all think of Robert Jordan's Conan stories?

Like I said previously, I read Conan the Magnificent (I even still have the book), but I read it so long ago and when I was pretty young. I don't remember a thing about it. How does he measure up as far as pastiches go?
Click to expand...

I remember liking them when I first read them (back in '86, when I was 16 or so). I really enjoyed Magnificent and Unconquered especially. Other than rereading sections for Shadizar and other books, I haven't read them cover-to-cover since, so I don't really have any idea how they measure up as a book, plot-wise or character-wise.
 
I've also heard a rumour theres a novel where Conan, or perhaps his son, journies to a Hyborian version of America..Is this true?

Adventures in Mu, possibly. But an ancient America!? :roll:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

S
[CONAN] A Game In Argos
Replies
12
Views
9K
Supplement Four
S
S
[CONAN] If I were in charge of the Conan film franchise....
Replies
1
Views
886
Spectator
S
S
Geographic Index of S&P Conan Articles
Replies
0
Views
1K
Supplement Four
S
JamesMishler
Why does Nemedia always get the short shrift?
Replies
2
Views
3K
VincentDarlage
V
S
101 NPCs (repost)
Replies
18
Views
11K
Supplement Four
S
Back
Top