World Builder's Handbook Feedback

Maybe skipping too much sleep this week is making me a little groggy, but let me make sure I understand the scenario:

In you example system, you've used the continuation method to place planet in the baseline orbit# (whose location is forced by the preexisting world and its climate). So you have an orbital location, based on whatever temperature range is appropriate for the pre-existing world, and a computed (Step 1) baseline number for it, so there is one less then the baseline number of orbit# to allocate inside this mainworld orbit#. The Spread for this star would be as determined by the Spread formula on page 48, potentially adjusted by the Maximum Spread formula on page 48.

Now are you asking if this Spread number applies to other stars in the system or whether it needs to be recalculated for each Secondary star (or Secondary and Companion pair)?

Well, it depends on whether you want to use the Optional Rule on page 49 (the first column optional rule, still under Step 5.) If not, then the Spread you've calculated for the Primary star applies to every Secondary star or secondary star and companion pair.

If you do want to use the optional rule, then your assumption that you would need to go back to previous steps is correct. But you'd want to step further back to each star or star pair and create a separate baseline number - this can get hairy, because you could start getting into situations where, for instance, the baseline number for this secondary set of orbits is, so low that kicks out all the orbits into unallowable regions. That's why the equation at the top of page 49 is there - Maximum Secondary Spread = ... This will force those orbits into the space available. Which is why I'd be careful recomputing this (plus, what is your definition of 'total worlds' now for the purpose of the DM? - I could argue that one both ways, but it is safer to use the system's total world, not the secondary's).

So that optional rule to recompute multiple baseline numbers and then spreads is hard to handle programmatically (especially in a spreadsheet). Best to stick with keeping the computed primary spread and modifying it down to a maximum secondary spread if necessary. The optional rule is fine for bespoke, hand crafted systems, but it introduces too many contingencies.

Short answer: Use the same Spread for all stars or star pairs, limited by the Maximum Secondary Spread formula if necessary.

As for the question on whether the continuation method forces the planet to be in orbit around the primary star, it doesn't, but you're right it isn't clearly indicated anywhere and the procedures are focused on placing the existing mainworld in relation to the habitable zone of the primary star Orbit#. Doing otherwise makes it more art than science, meaning a heavy use of Rule 0 might be necessary. First, you have to make sure the orbit supporting the proper climate fits for that star. (this is also true for the primary star if a secondary star disrupts the habitable zone). If not, you need to move stars around to make it work the way you want to. There is a risk, especially in multi-star systems that no star can support a habitable zone planet, but if you start with such a beast, it has to go somewhere, so something has to shift.

The baseline number is really meant to to determine the spread for the primary star and in many instances, the primary star is going to have the bulk of the planets. If the secondary is at a far location, you can treat primary and secondary fairly independently, divide the worlds as indicated in Step 1, and then move through the steps 2+ for each star's worlds. That's essentially using that optional rule, going back to Step 1 for each star/star pair.

I allowed myself an out with a statement on page 45: In the continuation method, if that placement is unacceptable because of a known
mainworld environment, the Referee may need to move stars to different Orbits#.


That's a lot of typing and maybe not exactly what you're asking, so feel free to continue to as clarifying questions. And I'll try to think and communicate clearly.
Thanks that does answer my question. As it happens the secondary star is in a Far location, but I'll stick to the advice under "Short Answer".

In terms of feedback, I would have found it helpful to have clarifying statements under: STEP 2: DETERMINE SYSTEM BASELINE NUMBER that the baseline number is only determined once for the system; that under STEP 3: DETERMINE SYSTEM BASELINE ORBIT# the baseline orbit is only determined once for the system; and under STEP 5: DETERMINE SYSTEM SPREAD the system spread is only determined for the system; and in each case refer to the optional rule if referees want to determine baseline numbers, baseline orbits and system spreads for each star.
 
This time not a query, just feedback (I think) STEP 9: DETERMINING ECCENTRICITY (p.52) I would suggest adding "gas giants" after "planets" on the first line, assuming that gas giants may have eccentric orbits.
 
Thanks that does answer my question. As it happens the secondary star is in a Far location, but I'll stick to the advice under "Short Answer".

In terms of feedback, I would have found it helpful to have clarifying statements under: STEP 2: DETERMINE SYSTEM BASELINE NUMBER that the baseline number is only determined once for the system; that under STEP 3: DETERMINE SYSTEM BASELINE ORBIT# the baseline orbit is only determined once for the system; and under STEP 5: DETERMINE SYSTEM SPREAD the system spread is only determined for the system; and in each case refer to the optional rule if referees want to determine baseline numbers, baseline orbits and system spreads for each star.
I see your point.
Though to be fair, the step 2 section heading does say Determine System Baseline Number and for step 3 and Step 4, there is 'system' in the title. And 'system' is repeated in the text multiple times. Maybe I need a glossary definition for System.
 
This time not a query, just feedback (I think) STEP 9: DETERMINING ECCENTRICITY (p.52) I would suggest adding "gas giants" after "planets" on the first line, assuming that gas giants may have eccentric orbits.
Gas giants are planets, too.
I mean, unless the IAU decides to redefine the term 'planet' again.
(Yeah, what a planet 'is' amounts to a discussion as perilous as religion or politics. That being said, I can't see how it makes sense to define the fundamental nature of something as where it is, not what it is. And since the 'where' can change, is something potentially a 'former planet' or a 'future planet'? If we go poking at definitions, we're also going uncover that asteroid/planetoid vs. comet has the same problem. Or worse, meteor vs. meteorite... vs. asteroid, vs. comet.)
 
On page 17, star mass for K0 III is 1.1 and for K0 IV it is 1.5. That's the only pair that does not decrease across the table. Are those values correct?

Also, the values across M0 - M9 increase instead of decrease as per the other types. M type stars grow bigger as they cool?
 
On page 17, star mass for K0 III is 1.1 and for K0 IV it is 1.5. That's the only pair that does not decrease across the table. Are those values correct?
Yes, although there is variability. It all depends on the temperature as they evolve from V to IV to III.
A quick example is K1 IV Eta Cephei at 1.6 sols, Gamma Cephei on its way from IV to III at 1.4 sols, and Arcturus as a III at about 1.1 sols
But it varies, and you'll find different masses at different spectral classes, where dealing with averages.

Also, the values across M0 - M9 increase instead of decrease as per the other types. M type stars grow bigger as they cool?
Yes.

Though 'grow bigger as they grow cooler', is kind of a misnomer, more like more massive ones end up cooler (and bigger, so often considerably brighter) when they become giants.

And factors such as actual composition and where (when) they lie in their evolution within the brought Classes. Giants stars, especially towards the end of their lives not only have a tendency to be variable over the short term, but over the course of time. A screenshot (from wikipedia) of a 1 solar mass stars evolution can look like this:
1688867308793.png
(with temperature directly related to its Class). Over time the star would also loose some mass, but until it's about ready to die, it won't be that much for a 1 solar mass star.

So there's actually a lot of variability, depending on when you're looking. The whole period from the departure from main sequence to white dwarf is about two billion years.
 
Gas giants are planets, too.
I mean, unless the IAU decides to redefine the term 'planet' again.
(Yeah, what a planet 'is' amounts to a discussion as perilous as religion or politics. That being said, I can't see how it makes sense to define the fundamental nature of something as where it is, not what it is. And since the 'where' can change, is something potentially a 'former planet' or a 'future planet'? If we go poking at definitions, we're also going uncover that asteroid/planetoid vs. comet has the same problem. Or worse, meteor vs. meteorite... vs. asteroid, vs. comet.)
Not disagreeing with any of that but as far as I can tell at no point is a gas giant referred to as a planet anywhere in The World Builder’s Handbook, so the reference to planets on p.52 is a little ambiguous (is it the same terrestrial planets?).
 
The glossary does have Gas Giant as an entry. It's described as both a 'world' - a generic term - and 'Generally' as a 'planet'. It's done so because you can, in some rare instances end up with a gas giant being a moon. And then there's rogues, which, I'm not sure the IAU is 'comfortable' calling a planet (since it doesn't orbit a sun directly and has no 'space' to clear).
 
Just to update everyone, changes here have mostly been implemented, so we are doing some final checks before the PDF will be updated :)
Well I just sent you another three and a half pages of fixes (sorry), so that might slow things down a little. Assume the email got through. I really, really, need to change hosting providers.
 
okay this one is not my fault...
1689205289597.png
The opening parenthesis for the first row seems to have slipped to the second row... it should be +(2D-2) x 0.05
 
From the other thread (and this one is my fault):
----
Well *poo* (or some other word). I originally had such a section up front, then decided it needed to be moved to Special Circumstances for one stop shopping for each of these not-stars. Missed it after I 'improved it."

So there are three references to Failed Stars on page 219. The first two should reference the Dead Stars section and the third should reference the Brown Dwarf section.
Or they could reference pages 227-228, page 227, and page 226, respectively.
 
p. 135: is "hexess" intended, or is it meant to be "hexes"?
That's the feminine form of 'hex'.
Okay, yes, that should be 'HEX' with not even a plural, I would think, and METHOS should be METHOD, which probably only needs to be on the sides, not just METHOD 1 in the middle.

(struggling to type at the moment. Radioactive Cat is intent on controlling my mouse and hitting the keyboard)
The intent of the illustrations was to show two methods of doing the same map, and if so... even though I didn't state it, the bottom one is exactly what I meant for a Size 5 world, but if the seven hex one is to show a contrast between methods, perhaps that should be a Size 5 world as well, meaning the top one's hex scale should be 714km.

(Okay, so for the set of maps with the Sector Construction kit, I wanted a whole slew from Size 1 to Size 10, like in T5, but apparently making a pad of different sized maps wasn't practical or cost effective - nor I suppose was making 10 separate pads. Oh well.)
 
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