Will Mongoose be fixing Book 17 ?

[Oiseau]

When you reprint The Deathlord of Ixia, are there any plans to fix the fact that it can't be won fairly ? I've just completed a playthrough of all 20 Lone Wolf books and met a quick doom in Ixia ; even with a homebrew Kai Resurrection and restoration of full EP after death, I was pwned twice (lost something like 125 EP in all).

Out of pure curiosity, I tried the book again in God-mode : all Disciplines, all Kai Ranks, all permissible Special Items, and maximum legal stats. Not to mention the constant EP gain through Kai Healing and the one-time 20 EP boost. Still no good. Either Tagazin or Ixiataaga will always win. So that's broken. It needs a fix.

Suggestion : Ixiataaga himself might not be the problem. It's the massive slaughter that comes before. Take some CS from everything : Lavas, Chaos Hordes, Tagazin (thrice), and those Kajardas and Kherbalas too (since you can't be wielding the Sommerswerd, their stats shouldn't be set at a level that assumes you have the +8 CS from the Sommerswerd).

Anyway, just two cents from a LW player who doesn't like to have to cheat to win. Anyone agree ? ^_^

 

[Drake_NZ]

Absolutely, there are several issues with this book.

Not being able to use the sommerswerd is crippling - the -8 CS is just too much (and inconveniently you have just lost Helshezag).

More annoying is that you don't know exactly WHEN you can use the sommerswerd - particularly near the final fight its very unclear.

Most of the hard fights are avoidable in certain ways - I have managed to finish this book legitemately a few times (with about 15 or so deaths - most on the last paragraph annoyingly).

However, it seems that if you make the slightest error and end up fighting a monster you are not supposed to, then the book punishes you with a brutal, resource draining fight.

Incidently Book 16 also needs a fix in relation to the impossible riddle and perhaps the 40% instant death roll.

Mongoose save us!

 

[Drake_NZ]

Actually, I tell a fib - I previously played through bk 17 using the ability to stack weaponskill bonuses - giving me an extra 6 combatskill!!! So we can probably safely assume that I would have died horribly on each occassion playing the book as written!!

 

[Oiseau]

If we're gonna fix insta-deaths as well, then please get rid of :

- The bridge in Book 13
- The petty random roll at the very end of Book 14
- The chasm you have to leap before getting to Magnaarn in Book 15
- The ridiculous 40-50% odds of death upon entering the Disciples' camp in Book 16
- The horrible insta-death odds after killing Ixiataaga in Book 17
- And basically every other "falling mast" in the whole series

In fairness, every "mast" should be avoidable with the correct choices, items or disciplines. No more "you have a 40% chance of death but if you take both Hunting and Assimilance then you only have a 10% chance of death". If you take what's required, your odds of dying in arbitrary random picks should be zero. In every book.

 

[Greg Smith]

Was book 9 any easier? IIRC beating the bad guy at the end of that was pretty difficult.

 

[beowuuf]

Both book 9 and 11 now have reduced stats for the end bad guys

 

[SnowShadow]

Altan Book 6 also easier. Agree with everything. Ixiataaga CS especially needs fixing as it is too hard, Tagazin too although I seem to think with all the modifiers I could get +10 Combat Ratio for the second fight with him.

The riddle in Book 16 needs explaining (is it anything to do with the number of stalagtites?) I seem to get any number to work.

Bk 17 "110", why the comment about CS for using the Sommerswerd - if it is undead surely it should remind about double damage? I assume you may use the Sommerswerd in any fight and not be detected by Ixiataaga and keep it in the Korlinium Scabbard the rest of the time - Ixia is more remote than Helgedad so the same discovery problem does not occur. Otherwise there needs to be a reference to turn to if you use it when you shouldn't...

Bk 17 "131" Random Number 0 = -100 EP!!! Should this be -10EP?

Bk 17 "123", "45" (Kai Blast usage). Doesn't state Tagazin's psychic immunities - just says you can use Kai Blast again - doesn't say he is immune to Mindblast/Psi-Surge. Kai Blast is a WORSE Psychic attack than Kai-Surge to me anyway! Kai Surge = +8CS -1EP per round, Kai Blast only does -2 to -18EP damage and costs a whopping -4EP... what happens if you pick 0? According to the text if you just double the number it would mean -0EP (0 x 2 = 0) but that can't be right because the improved discipline explanation specifically says "It can cause an enemy to lose BETWEEN 2 and 18 EP" you can interpret that one of two ways - to me 0 is not literally between 2 and 18. If it can cause -0EP it should say 'can cause an enemy to lose between 0-18EP', or am I being pedantic? -4EP for chance of no effect and -1EP for +8CS, I know which I prefer but surely we should be wanting to use the more advanced ability.

I do like Bk17 but it is very hard even with maximum CS/EP and all the equipment.

 

[Oiseau]

The riddle in Book 16 is indeed broken, this was discussed to no end on the Project Aon boards. If you know Shamath has 12 Lieutenants of Night you can deduce the correct number of loyal servants (10). But this info appears nowhere in the book (there are however 12 stalactites). And if you set the number of Lieutenants to x, you always get x=x or 0=0. So indeed, every number works in the riddle.

 

[Drake_NZ]

I had always assumed you can only use the Sommerswerd where it specifically tells you to, otherwise it has to stay put in the scabbard.

This gets quite confusing, I recall there is a section just before the deathlord where you fight some bug creatures. You get several options - and only one of those specifically asks you if you have the sommerswerd, in which case you get to pull it out and wreak havoc.

Also is the deathlord himself undead? This should be clarified too - would make the fight a lot easier!!!

Kai-Blast seems to be pretty confusing generally - I don't know whether it counts as a turn of combat (i.e. they get to whack you for free) or whether you can do it at the start of a fight once, or multiple times for free at any point. It does seem very unfair forcing you to use it on Tagazin.

The only upside is you may have the +6CS adgana herbs - IF you can avoid losing them through various sections. (or possibly the +4CS alether from bk 3 using the very liberal "storage" rules interpretation)

Aside from the difficulty - book 17 is a very well written and atmoshperic book.

I guess if they make a lot of changes then at least Mongoose are guaranteed plenty of sales of the collectors edition for bk 17

 

[SnowShadow]

Backpack Items - you lose your backpack at the end of book 7 and may also at the end of book 13. You can't actually store any Special Items until book 8 so backpack would probably be the same, this one's a big debate too! You would have to make sure you stored the Alether from Bk 13, 3, etc. until after Bk 15 because you use it to escape Temple of Antah. Feels wrong to store it when you know what is coming and then bring it out for the right adventure, still if you have Telegnosis...

Ixiataaga is Undead. "Living" for thousands of years, skeletal appearance/goat skull, overwhelming stench of death and decay - must be Undead. At "57" Banedon says 'If you are to defeat the Deathlord AND his minions you will need a weapon of exceptional power - a weapon capable of destroying that which is already dead', to me the inference is that BOTH lord and minions are Undead. I had never considered Ixiataaga to be anything else but it is possible he is a skeletal loooking demon, etc. Wouldn't it be nice for Sommerswerd to do triple damage against such a powerful Undead being...? AND... If you don't have Sommerswerd can you take the Dessi Stone out of your weapon and put it in another weapon (especially Power Spike), Banedon can but he is a wizard. ANNNNNND can you get a Grand Weaponmastery bonus for the Power Spike? I thought perhaps if you have Spear AND(!) Short Sword, then I thought Bow - like Legolas using the arrows as hand weapons in Lord of the Rings.

Kai Blast is used in a normal Combat Round as the psychic attack - you cannot use Mindblast/Kai-Surge/Psi-Surge at the same time.

 

[Balgin Stondraeg]

Was book 9 any easier? IIRC beating the bad guy at the end of that was pretty difficult.

Really? The first time I played it I had the right items to autokill him without a fight (but then, I didn't have a copy of book 2 at the time).

 

[WritingWolf]

The thing that annoys me in this book is that the Dessi Stone doubles the EP lost an enemy with a normal weapon - fair enough, if the player doesn't possess the Sommerswerd they will need that.

However - you are then not allowed to use the Sommerswerd in some of the hardest fights, but face enemies with a jacked-up CS and EP. Basically, you're screwed.

The only way I could do this book is to stockpile Adgana, Alether (and ignore all backpack item losses in previous books) and swallow copious amounts before combat, and swig Lampsur mid-way through combat. Even the dice had to *ahem* roll in my favour a few times.

As Mongoose as now published book 13 I think we are sitll going to have live with the instant death swimming under the bridge.

 

[Kojiro]

Also is the deathlord himself undead? This should be clarified too - would make the fight a lot easier!!!

He looks undead.

 

[Seneschal]

Maybe I'm being dense and I've missed a sentence somewhere, but where does it say you can't use the Sommerswerd?

Banedon says "you must use it with discretion", but nowhere is it said you can't use it at all (Book 12, in comparison, is quite explicit in its "no Sommerswerd use" policy).

I skimmed through the book on Project Aon, and couldn't find any "No Sommerswerd" statement. There was a section where it asked if I wanted to use it, reminded me of Banedon's warning and asked again... and then gave no ill effects if I did actually use it.

So, I've probably just missed a line somewhere (please let me know where if I did), but as far as I can see, you can use the Sommerswerd whenever you wish during the adventure.


Now, that "you can use the Sommerswerd" is based on a "rules-based" approach, i.e. if it doesn't say "no Sommerswerd" explicitly, then the Sommerswerd is OK.

One might prefer a "more realistic" approach in their play, and as such forbid themselves from using the Sommerswerd for story reasons. Fair enough, but if one is going to do that, why not go the whole way and declare that after Banedon said "Careful with the Sommerswerd", Lone Wolf replies "Fair enough, hand over that Dessi Stone, then, would you?" and just take the Dessi stone anyway.
Rather reminds me of the bit with Skarn-Ska, where Rimoah is like "Oh yeah, the Sommerswerd, uh, forgot that, I'll just put this uber magic sword we spent ages making back in the cupboard."

Thoughts?

 

[WritingWolf]

There are a few battles inside the fortress where it asks you to use the Sommerswerd and it's instant death if you do.

Personally whenever that option wasn't there I used it. The book is hard enough as it is!

 

[johntfs]

There are a few battles inside the fortress where it asks you to use the Sommerswerd and it's instant death if you do.

Personally whenever that option wasn't there I used it. The book is hard enough as it is!

I used the Sommerswerd against the cave-monster, but aside from that, I didn't use it at any point where the book asks if I want to use it from that point forward in the book.

I'm usually able to complete the book, but it requires Max stats and very careful husbanding of resources. For example, on my just-completed playthrough, I had the Sommerswerd, the Bronin Warhammer, the Kagonite Chainmail, the Silver Bracers and the Silver Helmet. I also had a jar with two doses of Alether, a dose of Agdana and a jar of five doses of Laumspur. Along with a Silver Flask of three more doses. And I used all of that stuff. Also, Kai-surge is an utterly critical discipline to have because most of the time, lesser mental attacks have no effect.

 

[SnowShadow]

There are a few battles inside the fortress where it asks you to use the Sommerswerd and it's instant death if you do.

Personally whenever that option wasn't there I used it. The book is hard enough as it is!

I used the Sommerswerd against the cave-monster, but aside from that, I didn't use it at any point where the book asks if I want to use it from that point forward in the book.

I'm usually able to complete the book, but it requires Max stats and very careful husbanding of resources. For example, on my just-completed playthrough, I had the Sommerswerd, the Bronin Warhammer, the Kagonite Chainmail, the Silver Bracers and the Silver Helmet. I also had a jar with two doses of Alether, a dose of Agdana and a jar of five doses of Laumspur. Along with a Silver Flask of three more doses. And I used all of that stuff. Also, Kai-surge is an utterly critical discipline to have because most of the time, lesser mental attacks have no effect.

I hate to be pedantic but erm, don't you lose all your Alether when you get buried in the Temple of Antah for fifteen days in Bk15? Are you saying you use more than one dose of Alether in a fight? E.g. Drink 3 doses at once for +6CS? It is perhaps the hardest book to complete from a stat point of view but I agree with your comments, and Bk 15 says nothing about drinking your Silver Flask ;-)

 

[johntfs]

There are a few battles inside the fortress where it asks you to use the Sommerswerd and it's instant death if you do.

Personally whenever that option wasn't there I used it. The book is hard enough as it is!

I used the Sommerswerd against the cave-monster, but aside from that, I didn't use it at any point where the book asks if I want to use it from that point forward in the book.

I'm usually able to complete the book, but it requires Max stats and very careful husbanding of resources. For example, on my just-completed playthrough, I had the Sommerswerd, the Bronin Warhammer, the Kagonite Chainmail, the Silver Bracers and the Silver Helmet. I also had a jar with two doses of Alether, a dose of Agdana and a jar of five doses of Laumspur. Along with a Silver Flask of three more doses. And I used all of that stuff. Also, Kai-surge is an utterly critical discipline to have because most of the time, lesser mental attacks have no effect.

I hate to be pedantic but erm, don't you lose all your Alether when you get buried in the Temple of Antah for fifteen days in Bk15? Are you saying you use more than one dose of Alether in a fight? E.g. Drink 3 doses at once for +6CS? It is perhaps the hardest book to complete from a stat point of view but I agree with your comments, and Bk 15 says nothing about drinking your Silver Flask ;-)

Not if you put it in Safekeeping until Book 17. Which is what I do.

And the Alether/Agdana splits this way: First dose of Alether for the first fight with Tagazin. Second dose of Alether for the fight with Tagazin once he gets his helmet. Dose of Agdana for the final battle with the Deathlord.

And the Laumspur is for healing up between the fights with Tagazin and the final confrontation with the Deathlord.

Also, and this is just me, I take along a lot of food because it's my belief that not even Grand Huntmastery will keep you fed in Ixia because absolutely everything there is either dead or undead (and thus not edible).

 

[SnowShadow]

Putting it in safe keeping because you know you'll lose Alether... not for me but fair enough each to his own - do it before Bk7 with the +4CS Alether from Kalte and you could use it against Kimah or Chaos Master or Ixiataaga. If you max the stats I seem to recall you can get a K result with a 0 against Tagazin and he never acquires the helmet, unlikely but possible.

 

[johntfs]

Lone Wolf is at least partly psychic. Call it good intuition. Also call it necessary to survival. Including Grand Weaponmastery and every allowable Special Item, your total maximum CS in Book 17 is 48. Ixiataaga has a 60. Granted that Kai-surge will boost your CS to 56 (at a cost of 1 EP a round) but that still leaves a Combat Ratio of -4.

And let's not forget that just prior to this, you've had to fight Tagazin twice, so your EP probably isn't all that high to begin with.

As for in-game justification for not taking all that stuff along...?

Book 13, I figure I'm just going up against the occasional Druid and Agdana is risky overkill, plus I don't have all those other potions yet.

Book 14, again more of an infiltration mission. I fetch along a little healing and Alether, just in case.

Book 15 is just about one ambitious Drakkar. Screw it, I'll kill him, find and destroy his doohikie and be back in time to catch a play in Holmgard. How hard could it be?

Book 16 is something where I really don't know what's going on, but it seems at first like it's about bandits and bad weather, again not really something I need to bring the whole arsenal to bear on.

Book 17 is where I know from the get-go that I'm going after Ixiataaga, a thing that even frightened the Darklords of Helgedad so badly they didn't enter his realm for fear of waking him up. I also know that I'm going into an area where absolutely nothing will be friendly (or even alive). So I go in there loaded for Deathlord.