Why use pornography?

[Finarvyn]

The nudity didn't really bother me, except my nine year old who just started playing D&D was very interested in looking through the book and perhaps playing a Barbarian (he has seen the TV edited version of the movie) in Conan the RPG. A picture every now and again would have been tolerable, but every other page is a bit much, so I've had to ask him not to flip through it.

I had pretty much the same thing happen at my house. My wife asked me not to leave it around the house, but to keep it in my den instead. Perhaps a better solution would have been (1) put the girl in a "chainmail bikini" to keep her covered more, or (2) use the artwork from the right-side pages on both sides.

I love the book, but can't share it with my 11-year old son. Oh, well, maybe he'll still be interested when he's 18....

 

[Jonny Nexus]

A picture every now and again would have been tolerable, but every other page is a bit much, so I've had to ask him not to flip through it.

But surely he doesn't need to flip though it, given that it's the same picture on every page.

 

[VincentDarlage]

Gee whiz. If people don't make a big deal of it, neither will the children. My son asked, 'why is she naked?'. I told him she was warm; he said, 'oh,' and went on and ignored the picture and ask questions about other pictures and about the rules.

I showed the book to my mom and dad and neither had an issue with it either. Seriously, people think children will be traumatised by breasts. Better not breast feed the kids either... they might see one!

If people would stop hiding nudity, then people would not get so offended by it nor find it all that big of a deal.

 

[Mythos]

If you want an idea of how to raise your children to not be overwhelmed by female nudity, read Plato's "The Republic".

 

[Red Tulwar]

Crom! Please kill this thread. It's causing me actual physical pain. :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

Some people are comfortable with nudity, I certainly am. But I also don't want to expose my NINE year old son to it because that is the family and value system I've decided to set in place. You can decry the implied values of a society that built on Judeo Christian foundations, but the fact remains that it was and gratuitous nudity is considered a unacceptable for a child to view in American society. Considering that a good portion of the people buying this book are Americans that poses a problem with Game Masters that have children who are starting to have an interest in roleplaying.

It is as simple as not letting them look at it, but two well placed pieces of cloth could have solved that.

That said, I love the game, love the book, and cant wait to play it.

 

[Anonymous]

Im actually not trying to combative or argumentative. I was just stating that due to the values "I" follow I had to stop my son from looking at it. I dont at all consider a nude breast "pornography" .. Now If Conan had been doing lewd barbaric things to said breast.. well...

 

[Ibram]

Interestingly enough, when the wife of one of my players saw the Conan book the only comment she made was about how poorly drawn the woman in the corner was.

 

[Anonymous]

yup,i'm with you on that.I'm a little dissapointed that there isnt a FRAZETTA classic on the cover.
Ghoti,if you have read any of the books you will know that gratuitous violence and implied nudity are staple parts of the tales.I do not think that this game is in any way politically correct.If you want PC you should probably try elsewhere.Howards tales contained thinly veiled racism that were a product of his time and background.
Also if you wont purchase this on the strength of a drawing of some bare breasts then I suspect that you adhere to the principle of political correctness gone mad.

Nice to see these comments are from "guest"... ashamed to let us know who you are?

As for you comment, I am aware of this but as you said, the books contained "implied nudity".

What they chose to do, is not implied nudity and it is on every even page, or so I can assume by the previews.

This is gratutious and unnecessary. I do not believe that it can even be labeled D20 with the new rules on that.

This is not being PC, this is called being an adult. This will only appeal to those with juvenile tastes.

I'm an adult and I have adult tastes, I think maybe some people have a very different idea of what that means. I'm adult enough that erotic art doesn't bother me. I got past worrying decades ago.

Many people don't seem to realize that the current attitudes about erotic art and/or porn are simply a fashion of our times.

Besides, if you're going to have a game in world of Conan you better get used to idea of sex & nudity being around. Many of the female characters in REH's stories were nude the entire time, and it wasn't implied, it was decribed. REH wrote straight-out erotic stories as well, with plenty of S&M. Lots of adults participate in such things, and so I have to disagree about the attitude that porn is juvenile.

What a silly idea.

--- Ari

 

[Anonymous]

Actually, I'm with Ghoti, I find the graphic images to be highly disturbing, but I don't think Ghoti goes far enough -- how about the bare-chested man on the bloody cover. Don't people know that Children read these things!

In all seriousness though, although I love the book and have no problem with the nudity, I don't flaunt the book in front of my wife, who would give me a bit of a hard time about it if she saw. What to make of this? I'm not sure. I don't want my Conan watered down, and it's not a disney-esque family friendly genre in the first place. But the result of this is a certain hestitation to have the book open on the couch at night while we're watching TV.

By the way, I couldn't find the "irony" tags to use on my first paragraph. I hope it was clear from context.

 

[Anonymous]

Your Kids should be playing Forgotten Realms with you, not Conan.

I'm not quite sure why seeing an illustration of a bare-breast would be damaging to your kid, but having them merrily pretend running around and MURDERING sentient creatures with swords and bows is good wholesome family fun.

Personally I don't see a problem with my child seeing a photo of a bare-breast or playing Conan d20 with me, if he were 12 years old or so.
But he's only 6, so you know what I do?

I keep the book to myself.
That's right.
I'm an ADULT.
This book is for me.
It's part of my ADULT Hobby.
Therefore I do not bitch to Mongoose to nerf-down their content for my six year old, when their product is NOT DESIGNED for my six year old.

The same way I dont bitch at the Playboy channel for sending me pornography over cable when GASP, SHOCK! I might not be home! What if MY KID saw it!

BE a goddamn parent.
Take some responsibility for what your kids see and excercise some adult discipline and control.
Please stop ruining the adult things we are allowed to enjoy out of 'kiddieland' by Nerfing the entire world.

Just because I have kids doesn't mean I suddenly don't like a cigarette, a naked booby and violent video-games.
What this does mean is that I have a responsibility to monitor my child's consumption of content, and to segregate those things that are FOR ME, out of his life.

And if he did see my Conan book, I'd just talk to him about it.

WTF is wrong with you people.

 

[hassanisabbah]

Some pointers

First Pornography is "Explict material of no or limited artistic merit, and likely to provoke feelings of sexual nature". Therefore it applies not to drawings but essentially only photographic and video material.

Bare breasts are therefore NOT necessarly pornographic, and I think its safe not something one would consider pornographic. Nor is nudity a phenomina that will either corrupt, warp or deform your child. Infact they are subject to nudity on a fairly regular basis, from each other, and will have grown up playing games to establish such (Doctors and Nurses etc.. All of which are harmless child learning). Trust me, I was exceptionally gifted on the subject of child development.

Is it offensive, possibly yes, to some people. Thats up to them, they have the right not to purchase, as a consenting adult. I have long grown tired of the 'shouting' minorities, who believe themselves to be right and above and beyond all others, extolling their right (usually for the children) to be protected at the cost of others rights.

If you believe you are right, but can not produce a logical or rational arguement that holds up to evidence, then I am afraid I have to inform you that you are

a) Wrong.
b) Dangerous.
c) Poorly educated
d) Irresponcible in that you'd leave such material (that isn't dangerous) around for a child to pick up. Remember that your child is much more at ease with nudity than you are, having not yet aquired the adult 'guilt' associated with the naked body

You should thus try one of the following

1) Ask yourself why nudity is offensive to you?
2) Next Up ask yourself if nudity is 'dangerous' to your childs well being, as a) The Food they Eat
b) The Drinks they Drink
c) The Quality of the Air they Breathe.
d) Is this more important that other childrens rights,
e) or womens rights in different countries.
f) The most important thing you could make a stand on

3) Now ask yourself why you have chosen such a minor point to attest to protect your personal rights/child rights. When clearly far more serious problems exist beyond a picture of a naked breast. Is it your child that you really fear for. What do the pictures do to you.

I may disagree with everything you say, but I will defend you right to say it. But please try to establish a similar out look. True democracy is a two way street

Thank you for listening. I am hassanisabbah, you have been illuminated

 

[InsomNY]

Folks, the thread-starter hasn't poked his head back into this discussion for at least 6 pages now. Who exactly are you trying to convince at this point? :roll: I'll add another vote of "Yay, boobies!" if it will help, but I don't have time to put together a well-reasoned and adult discourse on this subject.

One of the things I liked most about the Hyborian setting was the lack of trolls. I don't know where the one named ghoti came from, but I know this: if you don't feed the trolls, they will starve and die, or at least move on.

 

[hassanisabbah]

I couldn't control my self... I saw the 'Word' and was drawn in.... i had to add something.

Breasts - the best known evidence as to the existance of a kind and loving god..... :wink: :lol:

 

[Iron_Chef]

I couldn't control my self... I saw the 'Word' and was drawn in.... i had to add something.

Breasts - the best known evidence as to the existance of a kind and loving god..... :wink: :lol:

I love boobies, too, but please---let this thread die!!! :wink:

 

[Anonymous]

I guess it all comes back to the question from the original post.

Is it really necessary to have a bare breasted woman on every even page?

The answer appears to be YES.

I as more bemused by all the bloody weapons and decapitation rules than the drawings of breasts.

 

[Anonymous]

Your Kids should be playing Forgotten Realms with you, not Conan.

I'm not quite sure why seeing an illustration of a bare-breast would be damaging to your kid, but having them merrily pretend running around and MURDERING sentient creatures with swords and bows is good wholesome family fun.

Personally I don't see a problem with my child seeing a photo of a bare-breast or playing Conan d20 with me, if he were 12 years old or so.
But he's only 6, so you know what I do?

I keep the book to myself.
That's right.
I'm an ADULT.
This book is for me.
It's part of my ADULT Hobby.
Therefore I do not bitch to Mongoose to nerf-down their content for my six year old, when their product is NOT DESIGNED for my six year old.

The same way I dont bitch at the Playboy channel for sending me pornography over cable when GASP, SHOCK! I might not be home! What if MY KID saw it!

BE a goddamn parent.
Take some responsibility for what your kids see and excercise some adult discipline and control.
Please stop ruining the adult things we are allowed to enjoy out of 'kiddieland' by Nerfing the entire world.

Just because I have kids doesn't mean I suddenly don't like a cigarette, a naked booby and violent video-games.
What this does mean is that I have a responsibility to monitor my child's consumption of content, and to segregate those things that are FOR ME, out of his life.

And if he did see my Conan book, I'd just talk to him about it.

WTF is wrong with you people.

As a father myself lemme just say Amen, brother. Amen.

 

[Elfman]

Breasts - the best known evidence as to the existance of a kind and loving god..... :wink: :lol:

There's an old Irish proverb:

"Beer is proof that God loves us."

But I like your proof better.

I suppose if the Irish didn't have nudity taboos they'd have a saying more similar to yours too.

 

[bolen]

It is odd that slavery, human sacrafice, and much worse are discussed in the book and folks are complaining about nudity.

On the other hand I would not have the book open when I have non roleplaying guests. I did think they kind of over did it but it is still a very nicely laid out text.

 

[slaughterj]

It is odd that slavery, human sacrafice, and much worse are discussed in the book and folks are complaining about nudity.

Yeah, but how many pictures of that are there in the book? Not enough, I say!