Why is Aging worse in Traveller than in 2300 AD?

[MasterGwydion]

Congratulations. And sorry for your loss... of sleep


Well, the 3I SETTING RULE was and basically is that TL15 is the usual maximum, and anything above that is special and rare. That may not apply to YTU, or your version of the 3I. It is not an actual Traveller rule as such.

As much as I tend to have to adjust UWPs for them to make sense with the fluff, I almost never have to change TLs. They can be made to work as is fairly easily. So, I do not have much TL-16 stuff IMTU either.

So, given that the setting rule exists, but TL16 worlds turn up now and then, they are puzzle worlds to be explained; especially in respect to the question "how come every world isn't like that?". Because they are special and rare, the answers vary.

Vincennes is explained as a regular industrial powerhouse that reached TL16 15 years ago. It's the way of the future, but the future isn't here yet.

Vincennes makes sense.

Darrian is a Relic, although depending on what secrets you want to run with they may not be showing their full hand either.

If TL is a representation of what can be produced locally, then Darrians are not TL-16.

Other worlds might have developed their alien technologies in isolation and may be lacking in areas such as Interstellar drives or AI, but use antimatter to power their cyborg armies.

Of course, and this makes the universe an interesting place.

 

[boggo2300]

Hey, when did Depot/Deneb drop back to TL-15? It being only 11 Parsecs from Vincennes and another TL-16 with a heavy (military and civilian) manufacturing base would have made that part of Deneb a real powerhouse! Did it get downgraded in T4? or later, it was TL-16 in both MT and TNE

 

[rinku]

TNE is a fair bit later. Check what era the map is set for.

It could be TL15 in 1105 in either case.

Also, small point but Depot is in Corridor, not Deneb. Are you thinking of Deneb/Deneb, maybe?

 

[MasterGwydion]

1201, Traveller the New Era is when Depot/Deneb is TL-16.

On the Travellermap anyhow

 

[boggo2300]

TNE is a fair bit later. Check what era the map is set for.

It could be TL15 in 1105 in either case.

Also, small point but Depot is in Corridor, not Deneb. Are you thinking of Deneb/Deneb, maybe?

Megatraveller isn't and that's when it's UWP was published

 

[MasterGwydion]

Also, small point but Depot is in Corridor, not Deneb. Are you thinking of Deneb/Deneb, maybe?

There is a Depot in almost every Sector.

 

[rinku]

There is a Depot in almost every Sector.

Yeah, I only just realised. I was misled by Depot/Corridor being one of the few systems that is shown on the MegaTraveller era strategic map I checked

 

[rinku]

Megatraveller isn't and that's when it's UWP was published

Source? I beleive that Deneb was first done briefly as a land grant before GDW released stuff (Imperial Atlas?) that overruled that.

 

[rinku]

Okay, the Travellerwiki entry still refers to it as TL-16 in places, so it's probably just editing goofs, or maybe Mongoose 1105 sources having it as TL15 (which doesn't conflict with it being TL16 in 1116 or 1201).

In any case, population 6 means it will add nothing significant to Vincennes from a research or production viewpoint.

 

[boggo2300]

Source? I beleive that Deneb was first done briefly as a land grant before GDW released stuff (Imperial Atlas?) that overruled that.

Rebellion Sourcebook contains UWP of ALL the depot's

And it is a MAJOR ship construction hub in Deneb, both civillian and Military, and being an imperial Navy Depot you can bet you socks it does a bucketload of research and production.

At TL-16 it seems silly to expect population to be as important for either research or development as it would be at the relatively primitive TL's we have experience of.

 

[boggo2300]

Rebellion Sourcebook contains UWP of ALL the depot's

TNE is a fair bit later. Check what era the map is set for.

It could be TL15 in 1105 in either case.

Also, small point but Depot is in Corridor, not Deneb. Are you thinking of Deneb/Deneb, maybe?

GDW disagrees with you. from page 34 of the Rebellion Sourcebook

 

[rinku]

Thanks!

Well, I can't agree that a non-industrial planet can be a major manufacturing hub.

Not a single depot listed is Industrial and several cannot even build starships (at least for civilians). One of them is TL6.

It seems clear that the mainworld itself is incidental to the depot itself, which in its function of fleet support would be solidly at baseline fleet TL.

They do have an R&D function, so sure - Depot/Deneb is definitely going to have some TL-16 ships in development and testing. But it's not going to be contributing to the general Deneb economy like Vincennes.

I'm more than happy to view Depot/Deneb as a bit of a joint Vincennes/Navy operation, though.

 

[MasterGwydion]

GDW disagrees with you. from page 34 of the Rebellion Sourcebook
View attachment 5276

So, this would be in 1,116. Looks like Depot became TL-16 sometime between 1,105 and 1,116.

Also, remember. Ignore the Population UWP for systems with Depots and Navy Bases. The UWP Code likely doesn't include those that live and work in the Depots/Navy Bases.

 

[boggo2300]

Thanks!

Well, I can't agree that a non-industrial planet can be a major manufacturing hub.

Not a single depot listed is Industrial and several cannot even build starships (at least for civilians). One of them is TL6.

It seems clear that the mainworld itself is incidental to the depot itself, which in its function of fleet support would be solidly at baseline fleet TL.

They do have an R&D function, so sure - Depot/Deneb is definitely going to have some TL-16 ships in development and testing. But it's not going to be contributing to the general Deneb economy like Vincennes.

I'm more than happy to view Depot/Deneb as a bit of a joint Vincennes/Navy operation, though.

Depot/Deneb is responsible for the Disintegrator Spinal Mounts on the Voroshilef Battleships (though the idea of refitting a Particle Accelerator Spinal Mount to a Disintegrator one on a TL-13 ship seems a little silly.)

And Non-Industrial just means you have a POP between 4-6 that hardly seems truly indicitive especially at high tech.

 

[Arkathan]

I am a new grandfather. Two of My daughters gave birth within the last 2 weeks and they are all staying at My home for the next few weeks. I had forgotten the joys of having two newborns in the same house.

Gratz!

 

[Sigtrygg]

Thanks!

Well, I can't agree that a non-industrial planet can be a major manufacturing hub.

Not a single depot listed is Industrial and several cannot even build starships (at least for civilians). One of them is TL6.

It seems clear that the mainworld itself is incidental to the depot itself, which in its function of fleet support would be solidly at baseline fleet TL.

They do have an R&D function, so sure - Depot/Deneb is definitely going to have some TL-16 ships in development and testing. But it's not going to be contributing to the general Deneb economy like Vincennes.

I'm more than happy to view Depot/Deneb as a bit of a joint Vincennes/Navy operation, though.

The planet is just as a planet. Could the planet be a Vincennes dormitory - a Las Vegas for Area 51...

interesting adventure opportunities should always be promoted

The IN Depot is the rest of the system, don't try and get past the fence...

lethal force is authorised

 

[MasterGwydion]

The planet is just as a planet. Could the planet be a Vincennes dormitory - a Las Vegas for Area 51...

interesting adventure opportunities should always be promoted

The IN Depot is the rest of the system, don't try and get past the fence...

lethal force is authorised

Yeah. This is just another example of how the UWP is meaningless. In a Depot system, the defining feature of the system is the Depot, yet the UWP give you no information on the defining feature of the system. Instead, it gives you the UWP of the supposed "mainworld" which has no bearing on or even any connection to the Navy Depot, eventhough all Depots are restricted systems, not a one of those worlds is Yellow or Red-Zoned. Not one of those UWPs give you the information on the Depot, yet in a Depot system, I would argue that the "mainworld" is the Depot and therefore the UWPs are wrong, again.