Why does every one consider Low Berth "so deadly"?

[Vormaerin]

Source of this assessment because I’ve not seen it in any book. Book and PG# or its opinion

It's a "rule" added to the starport construction guidelines so that they didn't need to write rules for lots of different tech levels.

"Most SPA Starports have full access to TL 12 (or higher) equipment and facilities: they are either based on worlds with a sufficient level of technological development or TL 12 items can be sourced elsewhere and transported to the planet. This allows these ports to make use of all of the Modules presented in this chapter."

 

[Garran]

That's also in keeping with the way that world TL is presented: the TL is the typical level available on an everyday basis, but higher TL items will also be found there, especially in the hands of the planetary government and/or anyone wealthy enough to import them. The starport is important enough for the Imperium to make sure that it stays up to standards; even outside of the Imperium, any planetary government that lets its starport fall below that standard will simply see trade move somewhere else. (And if they simply can't afford to do to keep their starport up to date, they probably can't afford to be running a shipyard either.)

 

[Fresnel]

Let us say the ship has old, poorly serviced pods and a medic with a substance problem... How desperate would you need to be to accept a 1/36th chance of death? Nevermind 1/16th or 1/12th.

Consider the real world examples - sadly we see plenty of people taking such risks to migrate.

So let's imagine a Traveller group seeing a system with an oppressive government, war, starvation - lots of people want to leave. They find the cheapest pods they can find and fill out their cargo hold with as many as will fit - power budget at the limit. The captain buy one Medic 0 wafer and gives it to a crewman with a jack. They don't bother taking their time.

Sounds like a great business model to be honest. Bet the Traveller universe is crawling with ships like this.

 

[tytalan]

Third Imperium - Starports pg. 43 under Tech Level. Mongoose Publishing 2011

So not a Traveller 2ed product and there for not valid

 

[tytalan]

It's a "rule" added to the starport construction guidelines so that they didn't need to write rules for lots of different tech levels.

"Most SPA Starports have full access to TL 12 (or higher) equipment and facilities: they are either based on worlds with a sufficient level of technological development or TL 12 items can be sourced elsewhere and transported to the planet. This allows these ports to make use of all of the Modules presented in this chapter."

Except highguard 2022 specifically says this is not true.
“
SHIPYARD
The smallest shipyards are found on civilian stations for the construction of small craft but far larger construction sites can be found on the stations of megacorporations and militaries. Shipyards provide the facilities needed to build ships to the Tech Level of the space station.
A shipyard consumes two tons for every ton of the largest ship it is capable of building or the total tonnage of ships it can build at any one time (so, a 10,000-ton shipyard can build ships totalling up to 5,000 tons). For every ton they consume, shipyards cost MCr0.5 and require 1 Power. They also need one crewman for every 10 tons.
In order to construct ships with jump drives, a shipyard must be of a suitable Tech Level, as defined on the Jump Potential table on page 16. So, for example, to build jump-3 ships, a shipyard must be at least Tech Level 12. Shipyards capable of building ships with jump drives have their cost increased to MCr0.75 per ton.
STARPORTS
It is possible for a space station to be classed as a starport for a system. This can be either as a highport servicing ships that cannot reasonably reach planetside facilities or as the sole starport within a system. The class of starport a space station can be rated as depends on the facilities it can offer, as shown on the Starports table. All the facilities listed are minimums the starport must have installed.
Note that while a space station might qualify as a
starport by having the right facilities, that does not necessarily mean it is classified as one. Commercial pressures might force the designated starport to be elsewhere in the system or the local government might forbid a space station from being used for this purpose.”
Highguard 2022 pg 68. Your using 1ed rules that have been specifically replaced

 

[Vormaerin]

Oh my god. You've found statements at cross purposes about the setting. I'm shocked. Whatever shall we do? It's almost like there's no One True Way to visualize the Imperium.

Mind you, that doesn't actually state anything contradictory to the rule MasterGwydion brought up. The quote specifically referred to Imperial starports under the authority of the Starport Authority (SPA). Whereas the High Guard quote also covers minor stations, military facilities, and corporate facilities.

 

[Fresnel]

Oh my god. You've found statements at cross purposes about the setting. I'm shocked. Whatever shall we do? It's almost like there's no One True Way to visualize the Imperium.

Mind you, that doesn't actually state anything contradictory to the rule MasterGwydion brought up. The quote specifically referred to Imperial starports under the authority of the Starport Authority (SPA). Whereas the High Guard quote also covers minor stations, military facilities, and corporate facilities.

Quite. There is room enough for all stories.

Low Birth will have a board range of possibility. At the high end, all the pods will have service records and inspection certificates. They will have multiple crewmembers with recognised qualifications in cryo-medicine. There will be a medical exam before entering the pod to check for potential issues. They will take their time.

In this case, low birth is as safe as crossing a road. Some people might prefer this to weeks or months in a tiny stateroom.

At the other end you will have the slavers and people traffickers. There will also be everywhere between.

 

[Condottiere]

Most megacorporations specializing in transportation have a reputation to protect, and the money to keep their equipment maintained, as well as hire capable crew.

 

[MonsterX]

It is customary for the ship’s captain to contribute Cr10 from every low passage towards a lottery in which each low passenger randomly guesses how many will survive the trip. If the winner is among the dead, the captain collects the prize.

see, that's just bad marketing. "Come travel with Safe Travels Passenger Lines. Whether for work or leisure, you can sleep safely and soundly as the light years pass you by. Sweet dreams and see you at your destination!" Roll video of happy couple with children on the beach, eating at a restaurant, jumping on the bed in a hotel room. Then the Captain has a lottery to see how many of you will actually make it to the destination alive.

 

[MonsterX]

Part of the danger comes from referees who insist on rolling for everything and a natural "2" is always a catastrophic failure. Such universes are strewn with crashes, misjumped ships and people who accidently shot themselves in the head while cleaning their guns. However, as far as RAW, there will be dangerous low berths as well as perfect safety records. This is ok, as Chartered Space is a vast and diverse setting and we can expect a huge variety situations and practices and risk tolerances. I assume that many polities will regulate shipping safety and therefore also low berth safety - so you need certified nurses and doctors to use them - these can be on the ship, or you can hire defrost specialists at the starport, good high tech equipment, regulated recovery times or there will be fines, lawsuits, prison time, and withdrawal of licenses. Safe practices would add up to guaranteed survival, and there would be occasional starport inspections of certificates and equipment. Even there, there may be dodgy free-traders who try to save money; usually the risk pays off but they may end up with someone who didn't report a pre-existing condition of END 3, rolling snake eyes, and dying - revealing that the trader's medic's license was fake. In other places, it is just caveat emptor - usually 100% survival with good reputation shippers, or sometimes it is a question of how desperate are you? Eye that low berth up carefully before you get in - would that be a mechanic role? Or Engineering - life support? I'd allow either.

 

[Condottiere]

Percentile dice tend to be more nuanced.

Snake eyes means something definitely went wrong - you can roll on another table to find out how much.

 

[Sigtrygg]

In Classic Traveller all LBB:2 A Starports are TL15 since they can build any ship in the game.
It wouldn't be until LBB:5 placed a limit on military ship construction at naval shipyards that things became contradictory.
(TL15 warships constructed by General Shipyards at TL10 Regina for example)

I don't think I have ever seen a gotcha like this - a MgT 1e setting "rule" not being valid in the same setting because it is not in a 2e product yet.

Save such pedantry for CotI, the Third Imperium of MgT is different of the OTU of GDW products and even varies between MgT sourcebooks. Use what you want, ignore what you want.

Run the game you want to run.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Traveller, and the Third Imperium setting, has been giving us "discussion points" since before the interwebs and antisocial media.

 

[tytalan]

In Classic Traveller all LBB:2 A Starports are TL15 since they can build any ship in the game.
It wouldn't be until LBB:5 placed a limit on military ship construction at naval shipyards that things became contradictory.
(TL15 warships constructed by General Shipyards at TL10 Regina for example)

I don't think I have ever seen a gotcha like this - a MgT 1e setting "rule" not being valid in the same setting because it is not in a 2e product yet.

Save such pedantry for CotI, the Third Imperium of MgT is different of the OTU of GDW products and even varies between MgT sourcebooks. Use what you want, ignore what you want.

Run the game you want to run.

Wow why do you bother with tech levels at all if you’re just going to take them out of the game?

Yet in the LBBs even before Highguard the freetraders were built at tech level 9-11 why bother. LBB 1-3 have no setting information since they were designed as a tool box the setting came later.
I guess in your Traveller universe Starports are 3 times as big as stated since they also have to have all the infrastructure to support a higher tech level than most worlds have..

The setting has changed much from edition to edition and how dare I point this out and disagree with you.

 

[Vormaerin]

All anyone is expecting is that you participate in a discussion of material that is well known to be contradictory and designed for individual interpretation instead of pulling this grognardic "I know the one true rule about how the setting should be understood."

How does General Shipyards build Kinunir class ships at Regina if the starport can't be higher tech than the planet in general? GM has to make a ruling! There's an infinite supply of that kind of detail to talk about and no absolute answers for it.

 

[MasterGwydion]

Wow why do you bother with tech levels at all if you’re just going to take them out of the game?

Yet in the LBBs even before Highguard the freetraders were built at tech level 9-11 why bother. LBB 1-3 have no setting information since they were designed as a tool box the setting came later.
I guess in your Traveller universe Starports are 3 times as big as stated since they also have to have all the infrastructure to support a higher tech level than most worlds have..

The setting has changed much from edition to edition and how dare I point this out and disagree with you.

Third Imperium titles are setting-specific books detailing things in the Third Imperium, written and sold by Mongoose Publishing. They do not apply to things outside of the Third Imperium. Highguard, the early LBBs, and such are general tools for building things not covered by specific setting material. For rules, I use Mongoose 2nd Edition. For setting material, I use Mongoose products, since the setting has changed very little from 1st to 2nd Edition. The only things I ignore are things that have been specifically changed in the 2nd Edition Core Rulebooks. If something is not covered, by a Mongoose product, only then will I look further afield in earlier editions.

edit: Although, IYTU, it can be however you want.

 

[tytalan]

Okay so here a fact for all of you check the wiki the original versions of the Freetraders are all built at TL 9-11 think about that.

Also it’s a far cry from having a fuel refinery and radio’s, and maintenance space and having the vast infrastructure to support building star ships.

 

[MonsterX]

Percentile dice tend to be more nuanced.

Snake eyes means something definitely went wrong - you can roll on another table to find out how much.

Maybe if you want to house-rule it that way. RAW, snake eyes is not an automatic failure, and with good reason. Anything else turns the game into a slapstick comedy.

 

[Vormaerin]

Kinorb/Regina has a Class A starport. Therefore, it must have starship construction facilities. That's part of the definition of a Class A starport and the chief distinction between A and B starports. Yet, Kinorb is only TL8, below the level to do even Rating 1 maneuver or jump drives, which are both TL 9.

Of course, the explanation of TL in the rules states that the value given is the average of what's available on the world, but trade brings in a wider range of goods. Rich people can afford 1-2 TLs higher than their world's average. Governments can also have higher TL than the planetary rating. Oh, and planets can have individual categories where their TL is 1-2 higher.

And there's a comment that at TL 3 or less, there is no telecommunications on the world except what the starport provides.

Tech Level is the fuzziest of fuzzy stats.

 

[Condottiere]

1. Starports within the Imperium, I considered minimum technological level twelve, since that was starting point during the expansion, and being administered by it, is a reflection back on said Imperium.

2. Outside of the Imperium, it would vary wildly.

3. At a minimum, security would need to be at that level.

4. And, as I recall, technological level twelve is listed as being interstellar civilization benchmark..