Why does every one consider Low Berth "so deadly"?

[Sigtrygg]

Wow why do you bother with tech levels at all if you’re just going to take them out of the game?

Because they are a very useful tool, but you have to consider how it all works within the setting.

The Third Imperium is old, 1100+ years plus the couple of centuries of Sylean Federation that preceded it.
The TL of the 3I was 12 going on 13 in IY0, civilian technology hit TL15 around the year 1000.

Now in the CT rules it states that type A starports can build any ship from the LBB2 construction system - that means TL15 civilian drives must be available (note that civilians are limited to model 7 computers while the military goes up to model 9 in HG). Both A and B starports can perform annual maintainance, so parts must be available for those TL15 drives at any A or B port.

So the insetting explanation is that TL15 Imperial civilian technology is available throughout the Imperium - the Imperium is all about trade remember.

Yet in the LBBs even before Highguard the freetraders were built at tech level 9-11 why bother. LBB 1-3 have no setting information since they were designed as a tool box the setting came later.

Yup, the free traders were. But look at The Traveller Adventure. The big trading ships operated by the likes of Tukera and Oberlindes are TL15.

I guess in your Traveller universe Starports are 3 times as big as stated since they also have to have all the infrastructure to support a higher tech level than most worlds have..

Not necessarily huge to provide shipbuilding and maintenance for civilian shipping 100-5,000t

The local population may have an affect on the starport size, as does the presence of a navy and scout base.

Have you seen the picture of Regina Highport?

Tigress class BBs look like limpets.

The setting has changed much from edition to edition and how dare I point this out and disagree with you.

I am aware of how much the setting has changed over the past four decades +, and I welcome disagreement and discussion.
Not everyone agrees with everyone else's interpretation of the rules, never mind setting details that contradict said rules or other setting elements.

We can disagree, stay civil, discuss in a polite (though sometimes heated) manner and all enjoy this game we all play.

Misunderstanding of tone and intent is a problem on message boards, I think I have upset many people over the years but a lot of them I would now regard as friends. We argue, but that's all part of the fun

 

[WHULorigan]

Maybe if you want to house-rule it that way. RAW, snake eyes is not an automatic failure, and with good reason. Anything else turns the game into a slapstick comedy.

HOUSE-RULE: If you roll double-ones or double-sixes, roll a third die. If you get an additional one or six, respectively, then it is either a critical or automatic failure or success.

Or, alternately, roll another two dice after a double-one or double-six; if you roll a single one or single six on the two dice, it is an automatic failure or success, if it is a double one or double six on the second roll, then it is a critical failure or success.

 

[MasterGwydion]

Wow why do you bother with tech levels at all if you’re just going to take them out of the game?

Yet in the LBBs even before Highguard the freetraders were built at tech level 9-11 why bother. LBB 1-3 have no setting information since they were designed as a tool box the setting came later.
I guess in your Traveller universe Starports are 3 times as big as stated since they also have to have all the infrastructure to support a higher tech level than most worlds have..

The setting has changed much from edition to edition and how dare I point this out and disagree with you.

Mongoose 2nd Ed. Robot Handbook pg. 108

Under Robot Maintenance

"Maintenance can be completed by a qualified servicer
in a single day for the same price but only at a
maintenance facility of the robot’s Tech Level or higher.
Most Class A and B and many Class C starports have
robot maintenance workshops on site or in the adjacent
startown. These can repair robots up to TL12 even if
the world is of lower Tech Level but prices are doubled
for each Tech Level of deficit."

Providing further evidence, in the Edition that you require, that starports are TL-12 and higher in most cases.

Although again, IYTU, doing it however you want is, as always, the name of the game.

 

[MonsterX]

HOUSE-RULE: If you roll double-ones or double-sixes, roll a third die. If you get an additional one or six, respectively, then it is either a critical or automatic failure or success.

Or, alternately, roll another two dice after a double-one or double-six; if you roll a single one or single six on the two dice, it is an automatic failure or success, if it is a double one or double six on the second roll, then it is a critical failure or success.

that maybe works for combat, where things will go wrong no matter how good you are. In dynamic situations, I treat snake eyes as an automatic miss, but except in special situations it isn't a critical failure. It still doesn't make sense when low berths or misjumps or anything but a critical emergency situation - 1/216 chance of critical failure would means thousands of misjumped ships around the Imperium every day: on average every ship would misjump at least twice before its mortgage was paid off - so banks would not extend mortgages. On average, a battalion of frozen watch would lose 2 soldiers on every tour, which would be unacceptable for normal tours, maybe in emergencies they would do it. On average, a gun would experience a major malfunction or firearms accident every time you went to the range to practice.
There are rules for firearms malfunctions in the Field Catalogue, which make sense - if the gun is unreliable, damaged, or overheats etc. problems arise, but a well-maintained quality gun does not malfunction 1 time in 216, when fired by a trained marksman. As for misjumps and missed pilot docking rolls, toying with a TPK every time someone misses a routine roll which their skills indicate they should make automatically is neither realistic, nor does it make the game more fun, even if it only happens 1/216 times.

 

[Condottiere]

Like my old boss told me, when I was using the wheeled office chair as an ad hoc ladder, it can go nine hundred ninety nine out of a thousand times right.

The problem is the game mechanic, plus it's an original Traveller trope.

 

[WHULorigan]

that maybe works for combat, where things will go wrong no matter how good you are. In dynamic situations, I treat snake eyes as an automatic miss, but except in special situations it isn't a critical failure. It still doesn't make sense when low berths or misjumps or anything but a critical emergency situation - 1/216 chance of critical failure would means thousands of misjumped ships around the Imperium every day: on average every ship would misjump at least twice before its mortgage was paid off - so banks would not extend mortgages. On average, a battalion of frozen watch would lose 2 soldiers on every tour, which would be unacceptable for normal tours, maybe in emergencies they would do it. On average, a gun would experience a major malfunction or firearms accident every time you went to the range to practice.
There are rules for firearms malfunctions in the Field Catalogue, which make sense - if the gun is unreliable, damaged, or overheats etc. problems arise, but a well-maintained quality gun does not malfunction 1 time in 216, when fired by a trained marksman. As for misjumps and missed pilot docking rolls, toying with a TPK every time someone misses a routine roll which their skills indicate they should make automatically is neither realistic, nor does it make the game more fun, even if it only happens 1/216 times.

Agreed, and I agree with your Post #38 above. My general rule is that you don't roll at all and assume success under normal non-stressful situations where you are taking your time doing routine things, and doing them right. So, the statistics you are citing above would not necessarily apply to the general situation, as normal routine situations do not even typically generate a roll. Rolls are for special situations during play where there is a timetable, or there is otherwise an element of stress or difficulty that is not the usual routine situation, or where the situation has an inherent uncertainty, or any situation where there are other factors impinging (whether the players are aware of them or not) that are meaningful to the storyline.

I would consider Jump a fairly routine procedure (especially after 10,000 years of practical experience), so I would not normally even require a roll for misjump unless there is some factor impinging upon the success of the situation (damage, lack-of maintenance, ship within proscribed jump-distance, anomaly, etc). As for Low-Berths, it really does depend on how the GM wishes to envision them in terms of reliability (with or without skilled medical attendants), and this will likewise dictate their likelihood of employment for non-emergency use (such as for frozen-watch or travelling "steerage").

 

[HalC]

Okay so? The MgT2e version is TL12. The TNE and MT versions are TL12 or TL15. The TL of the GT version is not useable due to GURPS using a different TL scale. I can not say about T20 since I never bothered to get that as a PDF and the paper stuff is in storage (no longer use paper copies) . I can not say for T4 (do not own that one), can not check CT (do not own that one)

GURPS TRAVELLER sets GTL 12 as TTL 15. GTL 11 = TTL 14. GTL 10 = TTL 12 & 13.

So, any GURPS TRAVELER 10 ship is really your bog standard TRAVELLER tech 12 ship.

Analysis of 1 dTon shipping costs break down to total volume of 1dTon divided by 1,000 credits to give you an actual cost of shipping per unit of volume that make the cost to import TTL (Traveller tech level) items cheaper than people realize. In GURPS TRAVELLER 1 dTon is 500 cubic feet (about 5% larger than a true metric conversion would rate) which costs 2 Imperial Credits per cubic foot to jump (that is, we’re GURPS to use 1,000 credits per dTon - which it doesn’t).

GURPS low berths last up to 14 years on its own internal power supply. A ship goes missing due to a misjump, and you can still find survivors a decade later. In CT, power plant fuel will not last a month if the ship misjumps and can’t find fuel to jump back.

And yes, low berths in GURPS TRAVELLER are more survivable than any other version of Traveller