Whrere's the Style at?

skandall

Mongoose
I saw someone mention the lack of a Wardrobe/Style skill as was in CP2020. I'd like to see a Style skill that can be rolled to provide a Style bonus to rolls, even combat. So here's a rough idea:

Style (CHA)
Check: A character may choose to make a Style check when their character changes outfits. This will take some time and access to a bathroom and shower. The character is attempting to achieve a look that will get them noticed and respected, and that can make life just a little bit easier in so many ways. The Style Bonus granted is applied to all CHA based skill checks, Initiative, and the characters Defense Value. The bonus is lost as soon as the character changes outfits or is involved in a number of combat rounds that exceed the bonus (if your bonus is +2, then on round 3 of combat your outfit is too messed up to still convey your super cool sense of style).

  • Result . . Style Bonus
    05 . . . . . -2
    10 . . . . . -1
    15 . . . . . 0
    20 . . . . . +1
    25 . . . . . +2
    30 . . . . . +3
Try Again?: No. The character has crafted a Style the best they can and now they just have to see how it works out. Once the character (NOT the player) knows the style has gone bad they can choose to ditch it and thus loose the negative bonus. After that, they can try again, but it'll take more time.

Special: A character can take 10 or take 20 when working on a Style.

A charcter without access to a suitable primping location such as a place with lighted mirrors, a sink, a shower, and grooming equipment takes a -6 penalty on Style checks.

A character with the Attentative or Meticulous feat get a +2 bonus on all Style checks, but the time it takes is 1d4 x 40 minutes.

A character may also select the Style skill when choosing the skills for the Creative feat.

A character can help someone else create a Style, treating it as an aid another attempt.

Time: A Stlye check requires 1d4 x 20 minutes of primping time.
 

psyclonejack

Mongoose
It sounds good, however question for ya, how can style grant you an attack bonus? I can see it gives you a charisma bonus, and thus a bonus to all charisma based skills . . . but I don't see the attack bonus logic.

On the other hand, one suggestion I might add is a +2 synergy bonus if you have more than 5 ranks in Knowledge (Streetwise) and/or Knowledge (popular culture).

That way a level 2 character with 5 ranks in Style, 5 ranks Knowledge (Streetwise), and 5 ranks Knowledge (popular culture), with the feats Meticuluous and Attentive, Would recieve a Total Style of:

Take 20 + 5 (Style) + 2 (synergy Knowledge) +2 (Feat bonus) + (CHA Bonus)
For an average total around 30.

PsyJack
 

cerhob

Mongoose
Yea love it too. But maybe not the part about to your attack bonus...but I know what u mean.. Maybe a dodge bonus or something. And maybe we could work in a welth bonus cus u just look RICHER then u really are.
As for the result/style bonus chart that needs to be tweeked. I think a 10 sould result in a 0 style bonus. NPS and most other ppl dont take no 800 min (13 hours. That a normal person with a 10-11 cha taking a 20 on the check) just to look norman for the day! but under normal condections it takes say like 30 min to look normal. I think like a 5-8 sould get you a -1 and a 4 and lower a -2 to checks.....
Or maybe we can add something like this under the descise skill...so we would not have to make a new skill and could just give it to ppl who know how to look like someone else be really good at style...i dont know..
 

skandall

Mongoose
I edited the Style skill description to fix some things. I agree that gaining an attack bonus seemed out of place so that's been switched to defense. I also specified CHA based skills rather than all skills.

I'm happy with the bonus chart is it is. Any different and it'll be too easy for a player to abuse it. I mean, how often does a player roll a total of 5 on a skill check? Yes, it can happen, but it's not likely. How often does a person try really hard to look cool, only to end up looking like a dork. That's common enough and I think the current table reflects that. You say, great but who wants to even use the skill if it might impose such penalties? Well, check my other posts for the Style related Feats.

Taking 20 on the roll is allowed but who has 13 hours to primp? Sorry, that's the rule though. You roll it fair and square and you're looking at 20 min to 80 min. That seems a fair amount of time to spend getting ready and I don't see a reason to lower the base time just because people might want to take 20 and not all day.
 

skandall

Mongoose
So, since the Style skill can have a downside to it, I figured there ought to be some feats that go along with it just to make it more interesting.

Fashionable
You have a natural ability to create great styles on any budget.
Benefit: The character gets a +2 bonus on all Style checks.


Fashion Victims
Your fine sense of style causes others to feel very self-conscious about their own sense of style, or lack there of.
Prerequisite:Style 5 ranks.
Benefit:Anytime the character has a Style Bonus, NPCs they interact with have a Max CHA bonus of +0.


Posedown
As you are about to enter combat you strike a very cool pose, drawing your weapons, and deliver an intimidating or witty taunt.
Prerequisite:Base Attack Bonus +4, CHA 13, Style 6 ranks.
Benefit:During the first round of combat the character may take a Pose action. This is a full round action allowing the character to ready a weapon in each hand and may move no more than 2 feet. Make a Style skill check with a +4 bonus.


  • Result . . . Combat Penalties for adversary NPCs
    20 . . . . . . 1st rnd - No Classed or Unclassed attacks; 2nd rnd - +4 DB vs Unclassed
    25 . . . . . . 1st rnd - No Classed or Unclassed attacks; 2nd rnd - +4 DB vs Classed and no Unclassed attacks; 3rd rnd - +4 DB vs Unclassed
    30 . . . . . . 1st rnd - No Classed or Unclassed attacks; 2nd rnd - No Classed or Unclassed attacks; 3rd rnd - +4 DB vs Classed and no Unclassed attacks; 4th rnd - +4 DB vs Unclassed
 

cerhob

Mongoose
I still say the chart sould be changed cus your saying that someone who spends 13 hours trying to look even a tad bit better gets not a singal bonus? I would eather say change the chart as to 20 gives at least a +1 or disallow taking a 20. Taking a 20 gets a normal person somewere, even if its only a +1. If i spend 13 hours looking up information on some street gang, im bound to fins something, and if i spend 13 hours combing my hair, im bound to get something to look just right about it. Hey, Im just trying to lookout for the little people.
Also I think you need some prerequisites for Fashion Victims, at lease Style +5. Also it sould only effect the nonclassed. If it were to affect only NPC i think maybe you sould have them make a Style Check (DC 30) or something like that.
And under Posedown you know 2 feat wont do anything for you right? its all in messerments of 5 feat. So in fact u did not move at all...Might want to fix that.
And im just trying to make these things fair. Even something so simple can make the game a very bad game.
 

Payote

Mongoose
I agree with needing a style skill in the game. However the benefit from this skill should be to Chr base skills , checks , NPC reactions,And even buying things like a drink or a gun. Things that looking or acting in the right way would help you. I do not see a bouns to initive or even to defense values. As far as the chart I think its a little too easy to hit DC value of 20 Id Bring everything up by 5. Since anyone trying this skill in the game should have an equal chance for good and bad results.
10 or less -2
15 to 10 -1
20 to 15 no mods
20 to 25 +1
25 to 30 +2
 

psyclonejack

Mongoose
Hmmm, Cerhob where is your math coming in? 4 x 40 = 160 min max . . . 2hrs 40min (13 hours, not?) Maybe I am missing something. The average Die Roll of a d4 is 2. Therefore the common person will take 2x20min or 40 min to get ready. A meticulous person, like most of the women I know take on the average of 2 x 40min = 1hr 20min. I know some people that take 30-40 min showers. Goodness knows what they do in there . . . And don't get me started about people soaking in the bath tub for an hour at a time.

As for the bonus, I am with payote that it should be a bonus to skill checks with his chart, or you could bump the chart a little more and make it a Charisma bonus, that way it will effect all the charisma based skills as well. Something Like:

05 | -1
10 | 0
15 | +1
20 | +2 <---This way Taking 20 will get a +1 on all Charisma skill checks.
25 | +3
30+| +4 <--- This limits characters to a +2 bonus on Charisma Skill Checks.

The Chart is basicly the same as yours Payote, save this one applies the bonus to the actual Charisma Stat. Thus a skill check of 20 would grant a +2 Charisma bonus. Giving the average joe with a Charisma of 10(+0) a 12(+1) for the night, maybe that +1 will be enough to help him score, but prolly not.

As far as the Feats mentioned:

Fashionable - I feel this is a redundant feat. A Character can take Skill Focus and get a +4 to a skill. Style is a skill so no new feat needed.

Fashion victims - I feel this is a bit much for a feat. I would rather handle this as a Bluff, or Intimidate check. With the looser of the contested roll, loosing any style bonuses to charisma for THAT interaction.

Posedown - Unless you are a runway model, having a posedown on a runway. This will simply help those shooting at you hit you easier. I can hear it already. . . .

Ganger 1 - "Look at the pretty boy posing for combat."
Ganger 2 - "Idiot, just stand still in the open for me . . . "
*Gunshots ring out*
Ganger 1 - "look, now he is pretty dead!"
Ganger 2 groans
Ganger 1 - " What? I thought it was funny."
Ganger 2 - "Just go see if he has anything on him besides the comb and mirror."

Just my .02, Style skill is a great addition, lets just not go overboard.
PsyJack
 

cerhob

Mongoose
errrr...math...shoot....wow, I messed up.....Ok well still. I like jacks chart a lot better. at least nothing happens when u roll average.
But yea.....hehehehe...
 

Payote

Mongoose
Well, this is all well and good for style charts. I'd like to say I think this skill should have a negitve effect applied to it for those trying to use it without at least 1 rank in the skill. It's just too easy for someone to roll bad with the skill and someone else to roll good without the skill and they both get the same effect. It dosen't seem right that a player who puts skill points into a skill gets the same benefit that someone without the skill can get just because of a good die roll. Therefore, I suggest giving a penelty to a non-skilled user's roll like a -5 or something. This way the character who really wants to play the style dosen't feel like they wasted skill points on something anyone can just roll for and go, "Hey, look, a 15. I look as good as you do and I am covered in blood." LOL "You suck style boy." Yes, I can see that reaction in my group from some of my players...sad to say. Sorry...this seems like a rant to me as I read it. But my point is that someone with the skill should always out perform someone with no skill rankings. Even accounting for getting a lucky die roll. I am not saying turn a 20 into a 1 or vice versa, but give a mod to the one with the skill verses the one without. ..........END RANT
 

psyclonejack

Mongoose
Payote started ranting and stopped when he said:
It dosen't seem right that a player who puts skill points into a skill gets the same benefit that someone without the skill can get just because of a good die roll. Therefore, I suggest giving a penelty to a non-skilled user's roll like a -5 or something.

I can COMPLETELY understand where you are coming from. So easy fix. Instead of making the roll a -5 or any other penalty for a "non-skilled" user. Simply make it a CANNOT USE UNTRAINED. Personally I see anyone wanting to use the style skill taking 10 or 20 on it EVERYTIME they use the skill. Why wouldn't you. You have time, might as well look good before you go out clubbing. Therefore you wouldn't have to worry about someone with a 1 in the skill looking better than someone with a 10 in the skill. But then again. Knowing Styles is only gonna grant you so much of a bonus. So after a while, you won't need to boost the skill any higher.

Wow, I am quite impressed that we have started a new skill, ironed it out, and fixed possible bugs. This rocks. Now we just need to come up with a final write up for the STYLE skill.

PsyJack
 

cerhob

Mongoose
Do you really think it has to be a new skill? I mean, cant we just put it into Disguise or Etiquette or some other skill? It seems to me that it would be easier.
 

Socket

Mongoose
psyclonejack said:
Payote started ranting and stopped when he said:
It dosen't seem right that a player who puts skill points into a skill gets the same benefit that someone without the skill can get just because of a good die roll. Therefore, I suggest giving a penelty to a non-skilled user's roll like a -5 or something.

I can COMPLETELY understand where you are coming from. So easy fix. Instead of making the roll a -5 or any other penalty for a "non-skilled" user. Simply make it a CANNOT USE UNTRAINED. Personally I see anyone wanting to use the style skill taking 10 or 20 on it EVERYTIME they use the skill. Why wouldn't you. You have time, might as well look good before you go out clubbing. Therefore you wouldn't have to worry about someone with a 1 in the skill looking better than someone with a 10 in the skill. But then again. Knowing Styles is only gonna grant you so much of a bonus. So after a while, you won't need to boost the skill any higher.

Wow, I am quite impressed that we have started a new skill, ironed it out, and fixed possible bugs. This rocks. Now we just need to come up with a final write up for the STYLE skill.

PsyJack
I think it should be useable untrained, everyone can try to look better or be intimidating..but they are just posers but every now and then they can pull something off. I would agree with making it so you can't take 20 or even 10 untrained, but even if you allow this remember taking 10 or 20 takes up loads more time, they may not have time under the circumstances to take 10 or 20 on the roll.
I think if the person uses the skill untrained then they should get -4 to the skill and there should be modifiers based on if you have the right equipment (depending on how you use the skill) if not then you get another -4. There could be more circumstantial mods to both pos. and neg.

Socket
 

Payote

Mongoose
Ok so we agree that this skill is useable untrained. But that without skill ranks in STYLE you can't take 10 or 20. Also if your trying the skill untrained you get a -4 to your check. So now we need to be sure where the benefits of this skill are going. One directly as a CHR stat bonus or two just applyed to CHR based skills and NPC reaction mods.
 

cerhob

Mongoose
There sould be a bonus to your welth, or some sort of negitive to the DC to buy something. But that could be handled with Etiquette. I really think that we could roll this skill into Etiquette or Disguise. I think it would be great under Disguise. It makes sence. But i dont know. You dont want this skill to over do Disguise and Etiquett though.
 

Socket

Mongoose
cerhob said:
There sould be a bonus to your welth, or some sort of negitive to the DC to buy something. But that could be handled with Etiquette. I really think that we could roll this skill into Etiquette or Disguise. I think it would be great under Disguise. It makes sence. But i dont know. You dont want this skill to over do Disguise and Etiquett though.

We could easily roll this into either one but to balance things up I think before someone could use disguise or etiquette in this way it would require taking a feat. This "style" feat could then be used as prereq's to the other feats discussed in this thread. I don't know which one I like better new skill or feat but either one is plausible.

Socket
 

psyclonejack

Mongoose
Cerhob said:
There sould be a bonus to your welth, or some sort of negitive to the DC to buy something. But that could be handled with Etiquette. I really think that we could roll this skill into Etiquette or Disguise. I think it would be great under Disguise. It makes sence. But i dont know. You dont want this skill to over do Disguise and Etiquett though.

Yes, a lower purchase DC through interaction should be handled with Etiquette, but Style should give you a bonus to your etiquette. Disguise to me is making yourself look like someone else. You Disguise your self as the janitor to sneak into the building. That really doesn't have much to do with style.

Socket said:
We could easily roll this into either one but to balance things up I think before someone could use disguise or etiquette in this way it would require taking a feat. This "style" feat could then be used as prereq's to the other feats discussed in this thread. I don't know which one I like better new skill or feat but either one is plausible.

I don't know if I like the idea of making a feat that expands a skill. Right now other than the two starting feats, the players will not get a feat of there choice until 3rd level, for nearly every class. August has made so may nice feats that I would opt to choose one of those over the STYLE feat.

Hey Skandall, how about this as a slight re-write:

Style (CHA) Check:
A character may choose to make a style check when they prepare themselves for a particular environemnt. This can range from an upscale champagne social to the latest concert at the hottest underground clubs. The Character is attempting to achieve a look that will get them noticed and respected. Something that can make life just a little bit easier in so many ways. However, in order to prepare a character must have access to a bathroom, shower, and personal grooming tools. The Style check grants a synergy bonus to all Charisma based Skill Checks, when operating in the planned environment.

Total Style Result:
05 Grants a -2 Synergy Bonus
(Wearing Top hat and Tails to a Punk Concert is asking for trouble.)
10 Grants a -1 Synergy Bonus
(Tennis Shoes at a Champagne Brunch?? )
15 Grants a +0 Synergy Bonus
(Most people still look average with time to get ready.)
20 Grants a +1 Synergy Bonus
(Taking 20 means extra time, but its worth it, better set your alarm.)
25+ Grants a +2 Synergy Bonus
(Limits characters to a max +2 Bonus, Game Balance Chummer.)

Untrained: Yes.

Try Again: No. The character has crafted a Style to the best of their ability, now they just have to see how it works out. Once the character (Not the player) knows the style has gone bad they can choose to ditch it and thus lose the negative bonus. After that, they can attempt to salvage something but, really, once you get to the club you going to go home and change?

Take 10 or 20: Yes. A Character with at least 2 ranks in style can take 10 or 20 when trying to attain there style.
Note: A character without access to a suitable primping location such as a place with mirrors, sink, shower, and personal grooming equipment takes a -6 penalty on style checks, and may not attempt to take 10 or 20.

Time: A style check requires 1d3 x 20 minutes of primping time. Taking 10 doubles this time. Taking 20 assumes the character did not worry about the time it took and spent minimum 2 hours getting ready.

Synergies:
A Character with more than 5 ranks in Knowledge (popular Culture), or Etiquette is granted a +2 synergy bonus.

A character with the Attentive or Meticulous feat is granted a +2 bonus on all style checks, but must take 10 or 20 on the check. A character may select the style skill when choosing the skills for the creative feat. A character may aid someone else in creating a style, treating it as an aid another attempt, and half the time involved.

Starting Occupations with Style: Celebrity, Creative, Dilettante, Entrepreneur, Student.

Classes that have Style as a Class Skill: The Connection, The Corporate, The Professional.
 
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