"Who builds Corsairs?"

[GypsyComet]

From http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=38096

a better question may be "who is building corsairs?"

A conundrum in Traveller for many years, particularly given the way the big map is shaped. Piracy as a career choice and phenomenon is difficult to justify on many levels in the later years of the Third Imperium.

In a "Big Ship" Imperium, there are simply too many BIG naval vessels running around for route lurking to work.

Course matching is tough in the time frame of the 100 diameter Jump Horizon, particularly since others who might run off a pirate are also close.

Opinions vary on the amount and significance of in-system traffic.

Most or all Starports are technically owned and run by the Imperium, so where do you go for maintenance, or to fence stolen goods?

Where was a purpose-built "Corsair" manufactured in the first place, and why, in the name of the Emperor, would there be a standard design for one?

Just what is "Piracy" in a Traveller context, anyway? What acts come under that term, and more germanely, what would someone who has spent career time as a "Pirate" have been actually doing?

---

This has been an issue of much... "discussion" over the years, some of it rather heated, pedantic, blindered, overly burdened with physics, or all of the above.

I could ask that the discussion avoid previous pitfalls, but I already know how successful that will be. Let's aim for one goal here: USEFUL ANSWERS.

 

[rust]

I am not sure about the precise meaning of the English word "corsair",
but its German equivalent does not necessarily mean a pirate, in fact
it could just as well be a privateer operating as a commerce raider - or
even hunting pirates.

I could imagine that some independent or semi-independent political en-
tity on the fringes of the Imperium might decide to finance a ship class
designed for commerce raiding, perhaps even to outfit privateers for an-
ti-piracy operations.

In real world history many pirates were privateers, former privateers
became pirates, pirates turned into privateers ... many ways to have
a ship built for one purpose to suddenly appear in the "opposite" role,
I think.

 

[EDG]

In a "Big Ship" Imperium, there are simply too many BIG naval vessels running around for route lurking to work.

I don't believe that - doesn't matter how big the ships are, space is a lot bigger. And given that planets are moving around in their orbits all the time, and jump arrival points are essentially random depending on the direction of the departure system relative to the destination system, it's going to be really hard to have "routes" (of course that doesn't help pirates lurking and waiting for prey to pass by either).

Most or all Starports are technically owned and run by the Imperium, so where do you go for maintenance, or to fence stolen goods?

Somewhere that the Imperium isn't . Spaceports around other planets in the system, secret hideyholes elsewhere in the main asteroid belt, brown dwarfs or wandering planets not shown on the map that only a select few know about, etc.

Where was a purpose-built "Corsair" manufactured in the first place, and why, in the name of the Emperor, would there be a standard design for one?

I'd say that there probably isn't a dedicated "Corsair" ship. I would have thought it was originally something used for pursuit by security forces that eventually found itself in less scrupulous hands, and now pirates generally like it.

Alternatively maybe if the pirates have their own class A starport somewhere outside the Imperium and know a few naval architects that have turned to the Dark Side, they can design and build and export their own ships.

 

[mtaylor]

some of these questions are answered in the upcoming (and finished waiting for Mongoose) Golden Age Starships 2: Corsair, which details the corsair situation in the Spinward Marches. Simply put, all 6 corsairs outlined in this supplement are stationed outside imperial borders, and I have suggested only one starport in all the marches actually builds them - unfortunately the name of the port escapes me at present but it is also outside imperial borders. The shipyard is in District 268 and is in a secret location - Kwai Ching system - I just remembered.
Two of the corsairs listed are actually privateers, so "work" for relaitvely corrupt local governments (one being Arden) or entities, like the TTC.
So my way of thinking around this is that pure pirating is very rare in imperial borders, but on the fringes and beyond it is more common - and privateering is more common still as amodel as opposed to pure pillaging and burning that the traditional image of a pirate is given.

 

[Leo Knight]

I always assumed in my games the corsair was a revenue cutter, light patrol vessel, or picket ship, designed for checking for contraband, providing assistance, etc. Sort of like a Coast Guard cutter, or an older, under-gunned patrol cruiser. Over the years, a few fell into "the wrong hands" (player characters!), and we're off and running. I also felt that some were used as privateers or commerce raiders, with the support of a corrupt local governement. Another idea was escort vesels for merchant convoys. The last two would explain the need for jump drives.

 

[rust]

some of these questions are answered in the upcoming (and finished waiting for Mongoose) Golden Age Starships 2: Corsair...

Thank you for a most interesting information.

 

[mtaylor]

Also, corsairs are often used as "poor mans" merc cruisers, another entirely legitimate use of the design.

 

[GypsyComet]

"Mercs" and "entirely legitimate" in the same sentence?

Point taken, though.

 

[mtaylor]

being a merc is an legal profession in the imperium. It saves having to bring in the battledress equipped Imperial marines anyway.

 

[kafka]

Enemy powers? Chop shops for Starships as EDG mentioned amongst Belters for secondary incomes. Spaceports. All spring to mind...and just because they are part of the Imperium, it does not translate automatically to loyality to it.

 

[AndrewW]

From the Pirate Cruiser (Cutlass-class) entry:

The most popular of these cruisers is the Cutlass-class, made by dubious shipbuilding concerns who build them for 'private escort companies'.

 

[cbrunish]

Another idea for corsairs could be by rival megacorps. People seem to forget about them. They are almost above the law (and in some areas they are the law).

Remember in Adventure 3 Twilight's Peak the Zhodani had taken over the planet of Fulacin due to a corporation. So even though technicaly the starport is Imperial it is possible on a corporation owned planet the corp might have control over the starport.

Plus using the above planet as an example. Fulacin's pop is a 2. So there are hundreds of people on the planet. How much of a presence is the Imperium going to spend on a planet like this. You might find many systems such as this through space. Any system with a low pop and good starport might turn a blind eye to many illegial activities.

 

[Woas]

Hmm... looking at this from a different direction here.

I realize what the description on pg. 129 about Corsairs, but I see them more as ship utilitarian for the 'middle class'.

I mean in the real world, when I'm driving through my small town and see that orange Ferrari parked at the coffee shop... I might think to myself, "Drug dealer!" But that's (probably ) not true.

Corsairs (I admit a name change could be in order) are (on paper) nice upgrades for the successful space-man (or space-woman) who still needs a 'work' ship and has upgraded from a dinky 100 dTon ship to a nice 400 dTon ship with some bells and whistles.

At least, that's what it looks like to me...


Edit: drunk dealer... pfft. What was I thinking. :wink:

 

[Dark Lord Skippy]

Opinions vary on the amount and significance of in-system traffic.

Most or all Starports are technically owned and run by the Imperium, so where do you go for maintenance, or to fence stolen goods?

Most starports in the Imperium are run by the Imperium, but there are literally thousands of ports outside the major powers where a ship like a corsair could be easily built.

Of course, you dont have to look at this as purely political. The MegaCorps go to war with one another all the time. Certainly, commerce raiding would be well within the sort of thing they could both do and get away with it.

 

[blackblood_uk]

I have in the past used "heavily" armed far traders, a couple of these can soon persuade players to had over cargo as the repair costs increase.

 

[kristof65]

Course matching is tough in the time frame of the 100 diameter Jump Horizon, particularly since others who might run off a pirate are also close.

I'm sorry, but this assumption bugs me. For a world like earth, this can be very true. But for worlds that fall within the star's 100d limit, the 100d limit of gas giants, and interplanetary travel within a system, there is lots of time, particularly when the "victim" only has 1 or 2g acceleration.

Take a look at my assessment of the Regina system in my post at the bottom of the page here: http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=35598&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=150


As for who build's corsairs. My assumption is that most of the ones that are purpose built were built for corporate raiding or privateering, and have later fallen into less reputable hands. The majority of pirate ships will be converted from something else.

However, Traveller being a space opera, there will always be the madman who does things that defy logic - things like purpose building commerce raiders and corsairs. You know, your typical Bond villian.

 

[AndrewW]

As for who build's corsairs. My assumption is that most of the ones that are purpose built were built for corporate raiding or privateering, and have later fallen into less reputable hands. The majority of pirate ships will be converted from something else.

However, Traveller being a space opera, there will always be the madman who does things that defy logic - things like purpose building commerce raiders and corsairs. You know, your typical Bond villian.

Doesn't have to be corporate raiding. Governments are certainly a good possibility, raid their neighbors shipping and such.

 

[kristof65]

As for who build's corsairs. My assumption is that most of the ones that are purpose built were built for corporate raiding or privateering, and have later fallen into less reputable hands. The majority of pirate ships will be converted from something else.

However, Traveller being a space opera, there will always be the madman who does things that defy logic - things like purpose building commerce raiders and corsairs. You know, your typical Bond villian.

Doesn't have to be corporate raiding. Governments are certainly a good possibility, raid their neighbors shipping and such.

I consider privateering government sponsored.

 

[AndrewW]

As for who build's corsairs. My assumption is that most of the ones that are purpose built were built for corporate raiding or privateering, and have later fallen into less reputable hands. The majority of pirate ships will be converted from something else.

However, Traveller being a space opera, there will always be the madman who does things that defy logic - things like purpose building commerce raiders and corsairs. You know, your typical Bond villian.

Doesn't have to be corporate raiding. Governments are certainly a good possibility, raid their neighbors shipping and such.

I consider privateering government sponsored.

True, usually is.

More possibilities would include rival nobels, or even some merchants wanting to keep a good route for themselves, driving away competition or to show off the safety of their own ships.

 

[Patron Zero]

I would tend to believe that small independently operated shipyards, read such as any one slip orbital facility, are the likely place of origin for many vessels operating as corsairs and commerce raiders.

Given the tools, materials and trained staff such 'below notice' businesses could offer many less than officially sanctioned modifications of weapons, armor and performance enhancement to those with cash or other equally untraceable commodities.

One might draw a rough parallel to the sub-culture of illegal street racers, and the underground networks that support and 'sponsor' said activities, to the those of pirates, privateers and other less reputable factions in Traveller settings.

Essentially if there's a need for goods or services, someone will offer-provide such with a surgically removed ethical code as long as 'customers' come knocking cash in hand.