Which race is

[David Anla Shok']

Reproducing by fission? Why not? Not as much fun as the other way but....

Well, it would explain why the "New Vorlon Ambassador" was also called "Kosh"

Maybe it's like DNA that way: You split so many times then some inaccuracies get into the code and create eccentricities. In DNA, those tend to become genetic disorders or cancer. In Vorlons, maybe it just causes them to be mean...

Or maybe the first Kosh was the eccentricity...

I suspect that Kosh Nanarek was the eccentric one. He was infatuated with the younger races and seemed to be concerned about them.

 

[Da Boss]

yep thats how I see it - I got the impression he was not supposed to be assisting that muchl...............

 

[Locutus9956]

Firstly:

erm soul hunters arent first ones. They may be old but theyre not THAT old.

Secondly:

Where is this 'Vorlons cant reproduce' thing from, never seen it anywhere so is just speculation.

Thridly:

Shadow 'Eggs'? Source? If your refering to the 'pods' the drakh use on the centauri ships in season 5 thats just organic tech.... if not, then I have no idea where your getting that from....

Darkness and Light vorlon and shadow fact book

Ah, well no offence to Mongoose (or yourself) but some of the fluff text in mongooses stuff, as much as I enjoy the games, is a load of bollocks

It comes back to one thing for me really, I'm fine with it as long as it doesnt contradict anything JMS has said is canon (and he's said the AoG stuff is in his preface to the B5 wars rulebook...), and as long as it doesnt sound, well, just silly. The Vorlons and Shadows respective ages are fine, thats the same as AoG claimed. The Vorlons not reproducing is also not contractitory so fine. The shadow egg thing is not contradictory but just sounds a little bit 'wtf?!?!' to me... :?

 

[nekomata fuyu]

The theory I like regarding the name Kosh is that it's actually a title meaning "God" or similar. Vorlons just like us calling them gods, and it would explain the "We are all Kosh", as the new Kosh basically saying "We are all gods. Get on your knees and grovel, fool!"

 

[Tzarevitch]

Reproducing by fission? Why not? Not as much fun as the other way but....

Well, it would explain why the "New Vorlon Ambassador" was also called "Kosh"

>snip<

His actual name is Ulkesh. It is in one of the novels. He was the Vorlon ambassador on Minbar. You see him there in the episode where Sinclar leaves Minbar to go back in time to B4 "War without End" I think.

Tzarevitch.

 

[captainsmirk]

His actual name is Ulkesh. It is in one of the novels. He was the Vorlon ambassador on Minbar. You see him there in the episode where Sinclar leaves Minbar to go back in time to B4 "War without End" I think.

Tzarevitch.

And indeed he and Kosh appear to accompany "Valen" in his first meeting with the Minbari 1000 years ago (although this could just be a case of them only having to two different Vorlon costumes... one after they trashed Kosh's one...)

Nick

 

[lastbesthope]

Or it could be that that was the Kosh and Ulkesh of that time period.

LBH

 

[David Anla Shok']

The theory I like regarding the name Kosh is that it's actually a title meaning "God" or similar. Vorlons just like us calling them gods, and it would explain the "We are all Kosh", as the new Kosh basically saying "We are all gods. Get on your knees and grovel, fool!"

Oh. I thought that it was Vorlon for "Dude". My bad.

 

[Can of the Cave Beer]

well we have seen that vorlons can kind of split themselves, hence a part of Kosh remaining in Sheridan. Could vorlons reproduce that way?

we never really found out what part of Kosh was in Sheridan, was it just residual power?, knowledge?
if a vorlons splits itself does its knowledge split, it would then be like having two vorlon children and trying to teach them anew

Reproducing by fission? Why not? Not as much fun as the other way but....

"We are all Pinky...errr, Kosh"

Still, that makes the most sense. When a Vorlon feels the urge, it "breaks" a bit of itself off and that part goes out to experience the world. This process ocurred in whole or in part with not only Sheridan, but with Lyta (who used to ferry Ulkesh from time to time).

But what happens later? Will the new Vorlon want to rejoin with the "parent"? Is it even possible to rejoin?

It's pretty reasonable that the fractions are nearly as powerful as the whole (when Naranek and Ulkesh clashed...either that or Naranek was horribly beyond Ulkesh's power), but beyond that?

It's tough to say.

Also remember that the Vorlons (through Naranek's own declaration to Sinclair in Season 1) take "no interest in the affairs of others" even though he's watching an "efficient" viewer filled with Earth history.

Which reminds me. There's a reason I believe Dukhat knew certain things about the coming Shadow War, and it's not the Vorlons (even though it's been a theory of mine that they are ultra-advanced Humans/Human-Minbari hybrids). I think Dukhat new certain things about the coming Great War because someone from the prior Shadow War left him a letter with certain bits of information. It was easy for this person because he had already been in a position to witness certain events or their direct repurcussions.

 

[David Anla Shok']

As I recollect, Loriens statement was "the last of Kosh, a little of him (Sheridan), and a little of me". So it wasn't all Kosh, it was Kosh reenforced.

 

[nekomata fuyu]

As I recollect, Loriens statement was "the last of Kosh, a little of him (Sheridan), and a little of me". So it wasn't all Kosh, it was Kosh reenforced.

Kosh reinforced by the first one no less :twisted:

 

[David Anla Shok']

As I recollect, Loriens statement was "the last of Kosh, a little of him (Sheridan), and a little of me". So it wasn't all Kosh, it was Kosh reenforced.

Kosh reinforced by the first one no less :twisted:

Must have surprised Kosh II something fierce... yeah baby!

 

[M1ndr1d3rs]

Kosh2 would have thought: "HEY, NO FAIR!" :lol:

 

[Can of the Cave Beer]

As I recollect, Loriens statement was "the last of Kosh, a little of him (Sheridan), and a little of me". So it wasn't all Kosh, it was Kosh reenforced.

Gah!

I would forget something like that.

 

[mrambassador1]

I'd personally suspected this method of reproduction. Although I think the eccentricities of Kosh (given the "Screw the younger races, lets wipe out all Shadow influence" attitude, the first Kosh was definitely the out of step one, he'd positively gone native) are due not to defects in the splitting process, but rather to different life experiences after the split. You have a vorlon, he splits at first they are both the same having the same knowledge as each other, each as powerful and knowledgeable as the original single entity. Over time one has something bad happen, perhaps several bad things, almost being killed, an important project failing. The other has better experiences, is helped by lesser beings, learns a new insight into how they behave. Over time they will both have very different attitudes (like Ace and Arnold Rimmer). If this is the case (I suspected it with that "we are all Kosh line" and being able to split their consciousness) it makes the final battle of the Kosh's so much more personal, he is fighting himself to the death, each seeing what he almost was, what he could have been if a few things went differently, and utterly despising it.

 

[mrambassador1]

I think even though Vorlons can reproduce, it does not seem in their character to do it often. They reproduce when it is useful, not because of some instinctive urge
"Do I make you horny"
"Horny is irrelevant"
They are order personified, they do not like change, see no reason for it except along planned lines, their society is "perfect" as it is, they need no more, no less vorlons than they currently have.

 

[David Anla Shok']

I'd personally suspected this method of reproduction. Although I think the eccentricities of Kosh (given the "Screw the younger races, lets wipe out all Shadow influence" attitude, the first Kosh was definitely the out of step one, he'd positively gone native) are due not to defects in the splitting process, but rather to different life experiences after the split. You have a vorlon, he splits at first they are both the same having the same knowledge as each other, each as powerful and knowledgeable as the original single entity. Over time one has something bad happen, perhaps several bad things, almost being killed, an important project failing. The other has better experiences, is helped by lesser beings, learns a new insight into how they behave. Over time they will both have very different attitudes (like Ace and Arnold Rimmer). If this is the case (I suspected it with that "we are all Kosh line" and being able to split their consciousness) it makes the final battle of the Kosh's so much more personal, he is fighting himself to the death, each seeing what he almost was, what he could have been if a few things went differently, and utterly despising it.

You know of course, that the whole "we are all Kosh" routine may have just been a mask to make them look more inscrutible to the younger races. Until Sheridan makes the scene, the Vorlons are pretty much the mystery of the universe...

 

[mrambassador1]

That is always a possibility, although have you ever noticed that every now and then you find out what one actually meant, and what they said is the simplest possible way to say it. In the pilot the first words Kosh says to Sinclair at the docking bay is "Ah Setai Valen". When I watched it on DVD I couldn't believe it, he just came right out and said it in the first episode, of course because it was the first episode no one takes notice or remembers, it's just some alien gibberish right? In other episodes what he says is actually straight forward, "you have forgotten something", "I will meet you at the hour of scampering", "surprise, reflection, terror, for the future", even though its sheridan, he sounded like a vorlon "Beauty in the dark". The Vorlon sound very cryptic, but are actually very straight forward, they say what they mean and mean what they say.

 

[locarno24]

Or it could be that that was the Kosh and Ulkesh of that time period.

Or maybe that happened to be the most fashionable encounter suits at the time (it's not like a millenium or so is going to be very long in Vorlon fashion trends).

 

[Believer in G'Lan]

My info comes from the shows. I haven't used AOG stuff.

Vorlons being from the future - This is alluded to in many episodes from all over the show. The most glaring is in the last episode of season 4, the one with the snippets of future history 100, 500 1000 years in the future. At the end of the episode far, far into the future (I think it was 1 million years but can't remember off hand) a human looking man says "we will create the world you wanted for us" then turns into a sphere of energy and enters what looks like a proto vorlon encounter suit.

I believe the person saying that they re-made earth as Delenn would have wanted it, then turning to energy was meant to be the last human leaving earth before the sun went supernova (and taking all of recorded history with him) however many millions/billions of years on that is, humanity having by then ascended itself.