When does the effect of Ion end?

[AnotherDilbert]

This reduction in Power will last until the target completes its next set of actions, in either the current round or the next.

I simply do not understand. At first I thought it meant it wears off at the next Action Step, but that cannot be in the next round.

It could possibly mean until after the target has completed its attacks the next time its their turn in the initiative order in the Attack Step?


What does that mean in close combat: Does the effect wear off after 6 s or after 6 min?

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Shameless selfbump.

Anyone understand this?

 

[arcador]

I play it - the next action of the ship, before his next action. It takes a full cycle, excluding the ship's next action. This way it will include all the ship's reactions before and after his "ioned" action.

Otherwise if it is only after his next action, all reactions after that "ioned" action will be ion free.

edit: heck, it sounds messy. Hope you got it, I can draw it and it will be super easy to get.

 

[Nerhesi]

That is that game-design-duration that basically means it has to Affect you Once AnotherDilbert.

So if the ship being affected took it's turn, and then it was hit by an ion, it's not simply ok next turn. It would be affected next turn by the power loss.
If the ship being affected hasnt taken it's turn yet, then it is hit by ion, then it would only be affected this turn.

 

[Chas]

I'd still like to understand what the hardened feature of the latest up date actually means.

"Immune"

Okay, so that system/component is immune, so it means all the power reduction goes into other systems? What about basic systems, how do you cost this and make it immune? Can you even make basic systems immune? And if you can't what's the point of big budget immune systems like M drive? If the ship can't operate because it's basic systems are down... then what?

 

[AnotherDilbert]

That is that game-design-duration that basically means it has to Affect you Once AnotherDilbert.

So if the ship being affected took it's turn, and then it was hit by an ion, it's not simply ok next turn. It would be affected next turn by the power loss.
If the ship being affected hasnt taken it's turn yet, then it is hit by ion, then it would only be affected this turn.

I think you mean: "The target is affected until it has completed it's next Attack Step", but you are carefully avoiding the phrase Attack Step. As a suspicious type I get nervous around that kind of avoidance, and start to wonder what I have missed.

Either way we need a clarification, given that we have come up with three different, but basically similar, interpretations from the three persons who have dared an interpretation in this thread.

And, 6 min or 6 s duration in dogfight?

 

[Nerhesi]

I actually didn't name it (attack step) because I never thought to, probably because I didn't think that is accurate.

Isnt there energy usage also happening in the Actions Step? Or the usage of systems that use energy?

Thats why I think it stated to the end of "next set of actions". So everything the ship does when it is time for it's initiative.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

So if I do something in the Action Step the Ion effect ends? But then I will always do something in the Action Step, and the Ion effect always wears off this round not next, rendering the rule incomprehensible.

It's your time of initiative in each Step. Once in the Manoeuvre Step, once in the Attack Step, and once in the Action Step.


I guess the point of the rule is that the target should always be affected during one Attack Step, but that is just a guess.

 

[Nerhesi]

So if I do something in the Action Step the Ion effect ends? But then I will always do something in the Action Step, and the Ion effect always wears off this round not next, rendering the rule incomprehensible.

It's your time of initiative in each Step. Once in the Manoeuvre Step, once in the Attack Step, and once in the Action Step.

... Yes. That exactly what it means, it's not incomprehensible at all (after all, you just did comprehend it didn't you?)

Text: "This reduction in Power will last until the target completes its next set of actions, in either the current round or the next."

A ships set of actions can happen during its Manoeuvre Step, and/or Actions Step, and/or Attack Step.
Basically, you dont get power for that "turn".

 

[AnotherDilbert]

OK, so I didn't understand it. I don't think arcador agrees completely. and you have offered different explanations in this thread. Perhaps it is time for a clarification?

 

[Nerhesi]

OK, so I didn't understand it. I don't think arcador agrees completely. and you have offered different explanations in this thread. Perhaps it is time for a clarification?

Nope I think we're all aligned now.

 

[arcador]

It doesn't matter how I interpret it. I have a background from another system where I got the training of such rules. There was an abuse gaming the initiative allowing "double action" i.e. being last in the current round and first on the next round.

The text stating "his next action" takes care of this. The other differences are minor (either when his next action ends).

 

[Nerhesi]

It doesn't matter how I interpret it. I have a background from another system where I got the training of such rules. There was an abuse gaming the initiative allowing "double action" i.e. being last in the current round and first on the next round.

The text stating "his next action" takes care of this. The other differences are minor (either when his next action ends).

Yup - this started appearing around 10 years ago if not longer in various systems. Making detrimental things lasts until "the end of their next turn" - so that the effect is not skipped, or "doubled" as Arcador pointed out.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

But we do not have flipping initiative (thankfully).

"the end of their next turn" is well defined and easy to understand. Good!

"until the target completes its next [undefined] set of [undefined] actions" is neither. What does that mean in dogfight?

I still think this needs a clarification, if no one else agrees I will have to accept that.

 

[Nerhesi]

Oh you were asking for official clarification - sorry misunderstood.

You're absolutely right in that we dont know what is means for dogfights because it could be either potentially ridiculously overpowered (ions last till end of space combat round) or slightly nonsensical (ion duration magically reduced in dog-fights).

I really .. really wish I argued better for equivalent-time-scale-dog-fight rounds

 

[AnotherDilbert]

I really .. really wish I argued better for equivalent-time-scale-dog-fight rounds

That would have made a lot of things easier... But now we are stuck with it. And fighters are kind of balanced for it, without the dogfighting rounds they wouldn't be all that effective.

 

[Nerhesi]

I really .. really wish I argued better for equivalent-time-scale-dog-fight rounds

That would have made a lot of things easier... But now we are stuck with it. And fighters are kind of balanced for it, without the dogfighting rounds they wouldn't be all that effective.

Really? I think they'd be pretty deadly given the fact you need some fighters to hold them off, you can't just walk in with a battle-ship and ignore 200 firmpoint barbettes buzzing around your hull taking very little return fire.

 

[AnotherDilbert]

Really? I think they'd be pretty deadly given the fact you need some fighters to hold them off, you can't just walk in with a battle-ship and ignore 200 firmpoint barbettes buzzing around your hull taking very little return fire.

I haven't tested, so I'm basing my view on vague impressions. But at one 60th the damage...

But if the fighters barely do any damage we can certainly ignore them and concentrate on the enemy battleships, or whatever is most dangerous.