What would you want from a sector/universe editor?

[CthulhuStig]

I’ve just finished porting the Traveller Map rendering code to Python for Auto-Jimmy 0.9.3. There were a lot of reasons I wanted to do this, but one of the main ones is that it’s a requirement before I can add any kind of interactive editing of the universe. Auto-Jimmy has supported custom sectors for a couple of releases now, but those sectors have to be created manually or with some other tool and can’t be edit from inside Auto-Jimmy. I’m now at the point where I can start putting some thought into what a universe editor might look like, and this is where I’m looking for community input.

What features would you want in a sector/universe editor?

What I currently have in mind would be more of a universe editor than a sector editor, something to let referees modify the universe from Traveller Map to better suit their game. Things that I already have on my list

• Modification of universe data taken from Traveller Map (add/remove systems, edit UWP and other attributes, rename (sub)sectors etc)
• Import and export of standard sector formats
• Manual creation and editing of borders and routes
• Automated and guided sector/subsector generation (Mongoose rules to start but possibly others in the future)

As a disclaimer and to set expectations. This is still very early in the planning phase, so I’m making no promises about anything. There’s also a significant amount of work needed to get even the most basic editing working, so it will be a while before there’s anything usable.

 

[Terry Mixon]

Not directly related, but I'd like to see the ability to show something like the jump map for a longer range than 6 parsecs. Not necessarily for jumps (though a hop drive needs something like that as I've discovered in my Ancients knockoff game) but to present just a bigger slice around a system.

 

[MasterGwydion]

Not directly related, but I'd like to see the ability to show something like the jump map for a longer range than 6 parsecs. Not necessarily for jumps (though a hop drive needs something like that as I've discovered in my Ancients knockoff game) but to present just a bigger slice around a system.

I like being able to plot double jumps for crossing rifts and such. A J-2 drive able to jump twice between refuelings.

 

[rinku]

This might be waaaaay out of scope (or might already be planned or in there), but the ability to ask for procedurally generated data from a UWP and basic stellar data. Does not have to be the full World Builder box and dice - just a few sensible details for colour.

 

[actionman]

If possible, i'd like it to include the ability to generate UWP for all planets in the system, not just the main world.

Star(s)
Planetary bodies, asteroid belts, etc.
UWPs for all appropriate bodies in the star system
Let the user designate the mainworld.

 

[CthulhuStig]

Not directly related, but I'd like to see the ability to show something like the jump map for a longer range than 6 parsecs. Not necessarily for jumps (though a hop drive needs something like that as I've discovered in my Ancients knockoff game) but to present just a bigger slice around a system.

Auto-Jimmy supports jump routes up to J-12, but not the distances required for hop/skip drives. I did look at adding support for them in the past, it would be a relatively simple change to make as I already added support for the custom fuel per parsec value which I think would also be needed. The reason I didn't go through with it was the number of worlds that need to be processed goes up exponentially with jump rating. When you start talking jump distances in the 100s of parsecs, it can take a long time to process. It's not too bad if you're going a short distances, but for routes that require more than a couple of hops/skips it could take minutes to generate the route. If the wait would be acceptable I could increase the max jump it allows.

 

[CthulhuStig]

I like being able to plot double jumps for crossing rifts and such. A J-2 drive able to jump twice between refuelings.

You're in luck then, the current version of Auto-Jimmy has you covered . It has supported ships that can make multiple jumps without refuelling for a while now and the latest release adds dead space routing where it will jump you through hexes with no system if it would result in a better route. To use it you just need to set the Routing Type to Fuel Based (should be the default) and set the ship configuration to the values for your ship. If the ship you configure has a fuel capacity that allows it to make multiple jumps without refuelling then Auto-Jimmy will automatically do that. if you want the jump route to use dead space then switch the Routing Type to Dead Space.

 

[Terry Mixon]

Auto-Jimmy supports jump routes up to J-12, but not the distances required for hop/skip drives. I did look at adding support for them in the past, it would be a relatively simple change to make as I already added support for the custom fuel per parsec value which I think would also be needed. The reason I didn't go through with it was the number of worlds that need to be processed goes up exponentially with jump rating. When you start talking jump distances in the 100s of parsecs, it can take a long time to process. It's not too bad if you're going a short distances, but for routes that require more than a couple of hops/skips it could take minutes to generate the route. If the wait would be acceptable I could increase the max jump it allows.

Even a few hops is better, I think. Maybe a pop up warning to go get coffee because it will take a while?

 

[CthulhuStig]

This might be waaaaay out of scope (or might already be planned or in there), but the ability to ask for procedurally generated data from a UWP and basic stellar data. Does not have to be the full World Builder box and dice - just a few sensible details for colour.

Sounds interesting, but I'm not sure what you mean by sensible details for colour in this context. Are there published rules for doing what you're thinking, or could you give of a example of a UWP/stellar data and what kind of thing you'd like generated?

 

[CordwainerFish]

Even a few hops is better, I think. Maybe a pop up warning to go get coffee because it will take a while?

If it's truly exponential, then we could be talking "go outside and watch a mountain erode".

 

[Terry Mixon]

If it's truly exponential, then we could be talking "go outside and watch a mountain erode".

“Estimated completion time: one epoch.”

 

[MasterGwydion]

You're in luck then, the current version of Auto-Jimmy has you covered . It has supported ships that can make multiple jumps without refuelling for a while now and the latest release adds dead space routing where it will jump you through hexes with no system if it would result in a better route. To use it you just need to set the Routing Type to Fuel Based (should be the default) and set the ship configuration to the values for your ship. If the ship you configure has a fuel capacity that allows it to make multiple jumps without refuelling then Auto-Jimmy will automatically do that. if you want the jump route to use dead space then switch the Routing Type to Dead Space.

Okay. Will this allow Me to say, pick two planets 200 parsecs apart, have the app figure out a jump route, and then perform the trade calculations for that journey?

 

[Terry Mixon]

Okay. Will this allow Me to say, pick two planets 200 parsecs apart, have the app figure out a jump route, and then perform the trade calculations for that journey?

Wouldn’t that be amazing?

 

[CthulhuStig]

If possible, i'd like it to include the ability to generate UWP for all planets in the system, not just the main world.

That's an intereasting idea. Are you thinking just randomly generated or are there rules for how you generate UWP for other planets in the system? I wonder if there is anything World Builder Handbook for that, It's been a while since I read through it so can't remember what is there.

 

[CthulhuStig]

If it's truly exponential, then we could be talking "go outside and watch a mountain erode".

My claim of it being exponential might have been a litle exagerated, but it's definetly not linear. I suspect it's probably more like quadratic growth but it also varies massively depending on the density of the region of space your trying to route accross. The user could always cancel it if they feel the heat death of the universe approaching

 

[CthulhuStig]

Okay. Will this allow Me to say, pick two planets 200 parsecs apart, have the app figure out a jump route, and then perform the trade calculations for that journey?

There's no limit to the length of the route it can plot. The Fuel Based and Dead Space routing will also take it account what type of refueling you want to use (only starports, only gas giants, any wilderness that kind of thing) so it will only plot routes where it's actually possible to take on enough fuel to complete the journey using the type of refuelling you want to use.

I'm not sure what you mean by `perform the trade calculations for that journey`?

 

[actionman]

That's an intereasting idea. Are you thinking just randomly generated or are there rules for how you generate UWP for other planets in the system? I wonder if there is anything World Builder Handbook for that, It's been a while since I read through it so can't remember what is there.

Something like:

Generate the star(s).
Generate the stellar bodies in the star system.
Generate the UWPs of the stellar bodies.
Generate the moons of the stellar bodies.
Generate the UWPs of the moons of the stellar bodies.

All random or procedurally generated according to Traveller system generation rules.
Then let the user review the results and designate the mainworld and the primary starport, and make any changes to the generated data.
Create another draft with the user's changes.

I guess my inspiration comes from the CT Book 6 Scouts star system design sequence.

 

[Geir]

That's an intereasting idea. Are you thinking just randomly generated or are there rules for how you generate UWP for other planets in the system? I wonder if there is anything World Builder Handbook for that, It's been a while since I read through it so can't remember what is there.

Unfortunately that can get a little complicated, because there's a bit of feedback and a lot of logic (well, math and conditional statements, whether its logical enough is another issue) involved.

@coolAlias did a great job making a generator of out of the rules
(see https://forum.mongoosepublishing.com/threads/utilitarian-star-system-generator.124969/ )

 

[MasterGwydion]

There's no limit to the length of the route it can plot. The Fuel Based and Dead Space routing will also take it account what type of refueling you want to use (only starports, only gas giants, any wilderness that kind of thing) so it will only plot routes where it's actually possible to take on enough fuel to complete the journey using the type of refuelling you want to use.

I'm not sure what you mean by `perform the trade calculations for that journey`?

The Trade Route part of the App seems to just randomly jump around within a small area. I mean select two planets, have the App plot a path between them and perform automated trades along the way. Just like the Trade Generator but with actual starting and ending points.

 

[CthulhuStig]

Even a few hops is better, I think. Maybe a pop up warning to go get coffee because it will take a while?

I've merged a change that increases the max jump rating to 40 which I think will allow for up to hop-4. As it's not really full hop drive support, you'll probably need to override the Fuel Per Parsec value in the ship configuration as well. I've not used hop drive rules before, but I believe you'll want to set it to 1/10th of whatever the fuel per parsec value would be for a ship of that tonnage and the same level of jump drive. For example, the Fuel Per Parsec for a hop-3 ship is 1/10th the Fuel Per Parsec of a J-3 ship of the same tonnage.

The change has been merged to the repository, but it's not in an installer yet and probably won't be for a while, so you'll need to either clone the repo or download it as a zip file. If you've not done that before, there are instructions in the readme.