What we, the players would like to see in SST:WotS
- Thread starter Rabidchild
- Start date
Gauntlet-
Banded Mongoose
haha, yeah I know,
but the interesting complications can arise out of it, mostly out of which squad is which squad, since you can pick a unit leader per action, you can actually seperate a unit into 2 units, but one of those two needs to 'tag along' with a completely different 3rd unit using swarm rules. But it can still only tag for 1 action if the other 'half' of its squad took one action.
As you can see thats a bit of effort to keep track of what identical bug took what action when and where.
In the system I just mentioned you wouldn't need to know what unit a bug belonged to at all... it just would never matter, but you would need to keep track of what individual models took how many actions... Still thats easier than keeping track of the unit's action as a whole if the unit is spread out over the board... That being said I could always be wrong in my interpretation of the rules...
Still it always felt unnatural to me that the warriors act in unit mobs of a certain size, not that there is a better alternative. :?
but the interesting complications can arise out of it, mostly out of which squad is which squad, since you can pick a unit leader per action, you can actually seperate a unit into 2 units, but one of those two needs to 'tag along' with a completely different 3rd unit using swarm rules. But it can still only tag for 1 action if the other 'half' of its squad took one action.
As you can see thats a bit of effort to keep track of what identical bug took what action when and where.
In the system I just mentioned you wouldn't need to know what unit a bug belonged to at all... it just would never matter, but you would need to keep track of what individual models took how many actions... Still thats easier than keeping track of the unit's action as a whole if the unit is spread out over the board... That being said I could always be wrong in my interpretation of the rules...
Still it always felt unnatural to me that the warriors act in unit mobs of a certain size, not that there is a better alternative. :?
MaxSteiner
Mongoose
woah, even I havent had a post deleted in a while 
What did you say? lol
Ok.... seriously though, am I the only one who sort of feels like we've been in this "News is just around the corner, big announcement coming out any day now" holding pattern for the last 6 months?
Which wouldn't be a problem, but that seems to be the way Mongoose has handled this evo thing from the start!
Infact, asside from the 'we're relaunching it as a prepaint', have we ever had an announcement for SST:Evo that wasn't "Big things are just round the corner, wait and see!"?
I recall a line in the SST novel that seems strangly relevant:
"More is lost through inaction than wrong action"
What did you say? lolOk.... seriously though, am I the only one who sort of feels like we've been in this "News is just around the corner, big announcement coming out any day now" holding pattern for the last 6 months?
Which wouldn't be a problem, but that seems to be the way Mongoose has handled this evo thing from the start!
Infact, asside from the 'we're relaunching it as a prepaint', have we ever had an announcement for SST:Evo that wasn't "Big things are just round the corner, wait and see!"?
I recall a line in the SST novel that seems strangly relevant:
"More is lost through inaction than wrong action"
I'm afraid Mongoose has put itself in a situation where it is relying on the actions of other parties a bit too much.
This has caused those other parties to screw Mongoose and in turn have Mongoose upset the fan base.
It's a real shame, too, because it's obvious that these guys love what they do and really care about the fans.
This has caused those other parties to screw Mongoose and in turn have Mongoose upset the fan base.
It's a real shame, too, because it's obvious that these guys love what they do and really care about the fans.
MaxSteiner
Mongoose
Another point worth considering, is it may well be true that a bigger company approached mongoose and was impressed with how it had handled BFE, but you can almost guarantee they wouldn't impressed now...
If I was a big company with some kinda license I wanted to farm out to a wargaming company, sad to say Id be having secound thoughts about getting mongoose to do it with the current state of all their miniature games (Appart from B5 I suppose)
Also, heres a post from a first time poster in the BF:E forum, which is one of the more sensible analysis of the situation so far...
If I was a big company with some kinda license I wanted to farm out to a wargaming company, sad to say Id be having secound thoughts about getting mongoose to do it with the current state of all their miniature games (Appart from B5 I suppose)
Also, heres a post from a first time poster in the BF:E forum, which is one of the more sensible analysis of the situation so far...
buzkashi said:
Rabidchild
Mongoose
Some good points and some good debates. So back OT, what do people want to see in the game? Let's give them some ideas, since not everyone can make it to their SST day.
I tried out the some skinnie raiders and soldiers vs some LAMI and grizzlies.
My thoughts:
Suppression works very well for the LAMI, but they die in droves to skinnie fire. Grizzlies are not as dominating as I thought they would be, neural beamers are a great equalizer and a fun weapon.
What I'd like to see:
Skinnies: A skinnie flyer would be nice, as would some AA. Let neural beamers and heavy lasers act as AA, such powerful weapons are the cornerstone of strategy on the ground, make them decide if they want to lose that power for a turn to deal with the air assets.
Bugs: Bring back the blisters and blasters for SST:Evo, but rather than just being the vestigal "shooty bug" part of the army, tie them in to arachnid tactics.
-Edited to put my unit stats in The New Unit Suggestions thread.
I tried out the some skinnie raiders and soldiers vs some LAMI and grizzlies.
My thoughts:
Suppression works very well for the LAMI, but they die in droves to skinnie fire. Grizzlies are not as dominating as I thought they would be, neural beamers are a great equalizer and a fun weapon.
What I'd like to see:
Skinnies: A skinnie flyer would be nice, as would some AA. Let neural beamers and heavy lasers act as AA, such powerful weapons are the cornerstone of strategy on the ground, make them decide if they want to lose that power for a turn to deal with the air assets.
Bugs: Bring back the blisters and blasters for SST:Evo, but rather than just being the vestigal "shooty bug" part of the army, tie them in to arachnid tactics.
-Edited to put my unit stats in The New Unit Suggestions thread.
I wrote earlier:
I've been thinking some more about suppression. I'd prefer suppression not be a part of a new SST, at least not for most of the units currently in the game. I enjoy SST because it can be very dynamic and not just armies at the opposite ends of the table plugging away at each other from behind cover. The net result of too many units suffering from suppression is less actions which translates into less action in the game.
Suppression would make better sense (to me) as a unit trait for lower quality human or alien unit introductions. I'm thinking colony human armies, human thugs/pirates, perhaps Forth out of their machines, weak aliens that operate under mob mentality, and the like.
I've been thinking some more about suppression. I'd prefer suppression not be a part of a new SST, at least not for most of the units currently in the game. I enjoy SST because it can be very dynamic and not just armies at the opposite ends of the table plugging away at each other from behind cover. The net result of too many units suffering from suppression is less actions which translates into less action in the game.
Suppression would make better sense (to me) as a unit trait for lower quality human or alien unit introductions. I'm thinking colony human armies, human thugs/pirates, perhaps Forth out of their machines, weak aliens that operate under mob mentality, and the like.
Goldwyrm - have you played with the suppression rules yet? They are in my opinion a great part of BF:Evo. It's a simple and effective system that makes things interesting.
I don't think they will have nearly the impact on SST though. Most of the Arachnid units are going to be immune to it, and when it comes to Skinnies vs. MI the concept will play out just fine.
I don't think they will have nearly the impact on SST though. Most of the Arachnid units are going to be immune to it, and when it comes to Skinnies vs. MI the concept will play out just fine.
Paladin said:
SST:Evo is not a complete game. My group is only playing SSTV1 because it is a whole product.
Paladin said:
I've watched demo games of BF:Evo and I know what I like about SSTV1. I've also played many other rules for genres like WWII skirmish where suppression can easily make the game a slogging match. That's an observation and not a condemnation. When I'm in the mood for those games I play or run them. I'd just rather see suppression be the exception and not the rule for SST.
Another thing I like about SSTV1 is the alert status has a short range which means it eliminates some of the overhead that LOS overwatch and opfire creates in other games. In an Evo system, ranged attacks potentially create a suppressed unit, or if unsuccessful an alert status reaction to that attack potentially creates a suppressed firing unit. That makes reactions more like reactive opfire, rather than the point of contact dynamic I believe they originally were intended as.
Suppression isn't as powerful as I expected in BF:Evo. Just reading the rules you'd think the first person to shoot will utterly dominate the game. It happens occassionally, but not often. Since most units are roughly equal in size, they can't always put out enough damage to fully suppress the enemy (rolls of 1) and rarely are they able to double suppress units except in cases that are fairly realistic. I will agree that the rules for suppression will likely need to be tweaked for SST however. The reason is that the MGs do 2xD6 vs the D6 in BF:Evo. That makes it much easier to dish out suppression dice.
Rabidchild
Mongoose
In the games of SST:Evo I've played, suppression has worked like a charm, just as it does in BF:Evo. It makes MI vs MI or Skinnies more tactical, as it should be. Against bugs, it really draws a line that separates the tough units made for assault from the finesse units made for hit and run or flanking. Firefrys being suppressed meant they couldn't jump, bad planning on my part. Same thing for the hoppers and the ripplers. Which brings me to what I'd like to see.
Air units should be immune to suppression. Units that can become air units should be immune to suppression while acting as an air unit and revert to normal when acting as a ground unit.
I can understand the ripplers and hoppers being more tentative on the ground, but losing an action in the air phase slows you down when air units taking fire would want to speed up! This then gives the player a choice, run them as ground units using their Jump trait and keep them flexible but vulnerable to suppression, or run them as air units that puts them in a rigid role but makes them immune to suppression (and much other ground fire).
Air units should be immune to suppression. Units that can become air units should be immune to suppression while acting as an air unit and revert to normal when acting as a ground unit.
I can understand the ripplers and hoppers being more tentative on the ground, but losing an action in the air phase slows you down when air units taking fire would want to speed up! This then gives the player a choice, run them as ground units using their Jump trait and keep them flexible but vulnerable to suppression, or run them as air units that puts them in a rigid role but makes them immune to suppression (and much other ground fire).
MaxSteiner
Mongoose
I tend to think its a good sign if Mongoose are deleting posts again, means there might be a chance that someone besides us is looking at the forum
Still I dont think anyones really being overly harsh when you consider the sittuation... people aren't blaming Mongoose for the production problems or the legal wranglings, but there are certain things they have to accept have pissed off fans, and alot of the input we thought we had over the game seems to have been platitudes to keep us quiet...
Still I dont think anyones really being overly harsh when you consider the sittuation... people aren't blaming Mongoose for the production problems or the legal wranglings, but there are certain things they have to accept have pissed off fans, and alot of the input we thought we had over the game seems to have been platitudes to keep us quiet...
Goodluck with WarMachine.
If having armies that require more models than 40k, using HeroClix rules, and expensive figures that are increasingly becoming butt ugly while needing to keep on top of all the rules for every unit ever to be competitive is your game of choice than goodluck
If having armies that require more models than 40k, using HeroClix rules, and expensive figures that are increasingly becoming butt ugly while needing to keep on top of all the rules for every unit ever to be competitive is your game of choice than goodluck
I didn't mean to be condescending.
I just don't think WarMachine is a good game.
The mechanics are sluggish, there is little balance in the game, armies can be far bigger than most 40k armies, it's expensive, the figures are getting pretty ugly, and the game revolves around combos that do little than to get a quick caster kill and are impossible to defend against unless you have an encyclopedic knowledge of your opponents armies.
I've been playing since before Prime was released and I'm getting out of the game now in a big way.
There are much better games out there.
Stay away from the siren call of WarMachine.
I just don't think WarMachine is a good game.
The mechanics are sluggish, there is little balance in the game, armies can be far bigger than most 40k armies, it's expensive, the figures are getting pretty ugly, and the game revolves around combos that do little than to get a quick caster kill and are impossible to defend against unless you have an encyclopedic knowledge of your opponents armies.
I've been playing since before Prime was released and I'm getting out of the game now in a big way.
There are much better games out there.
Stay away from the siren call of WarMachine.