What eventually happens to all that paid freight?

[DFW]

The other night a player had an interesting question. They stopped to check for cargo on a planet along a J-1 main. One of the players wanted to see how much freight was waiting shipment to a system 6 parsecs along the main. I rolled and discovered 24 tons worth.

Question:

How long does the freight owner wait for a non-existent J-6 freighter before breaking down and paying a Far-Trader 3* J2 rates or a Free Trader 6* J1 rates?

The freight is there, paid for by a customer waiting on that planet in the other system.

Any guesses?

 

[rust]

In the GURPS Traveller economic system the freight agent would "auction
off" the cargo to the lowest bid for the transport to the destination planet
within the time frame agreed upon by the customer waiting for it.

 

[DFW]

In the GURPS Traveller economic system the freight agent would "auction
off" the cargo to the lowest bid for the transport to the destination planet
within the time frame agreed upon by the customer waiting for it.

Good idea. Would make it cost ~7000/ton.

 

[rust]

In my "colony settings" the characters often are in a position where they
are responsible for the purchase of supplies, new equipment and whatever
else the colony needs. One of the first things they learn is that in most ca-
ses the actual price of something is far less important than the distance
it has to be moved to the colony, because the transport costs tend to get
higher than the actual value of the goods very quickly - better buy the
hideously expensive stuff from the neighbouring planet than the special
offer from one five parsec away ...

 

[DFW]

In my "colony settings" the characters often are in a position where they
are responsible for the purchase of supplies, new equipment and whatever
else the colony needs. One of the first things they learn is that in most ca-
ses the actual price of something is far less important than the distance
it has to be moved to the colony, because the transport costs tend to get
higher than the actual value of the goods very quickly - better buy the
hideously expensive stuff from the neighbouring planet than the special
offer from one five parsec away ...

The cost structure isn't that way in Trav. But, in YTU I can see the logic of that choice.

 

[rust]

With the system from Merchant Prince it depends mostly on the value
density of the goods. For example, grain is a nightmare with its basic
price of 1,000 Credits per ton and the average hauling fee of 500 Cre-
dits per ton and parsec, while general colonization equipment with a
much higher basic price of 100,000 Credits per ton is much less affec-
ted by this distance problem.

 

[DFW]

With the system from Merchant Prince it depends mostly on the value
density of the goods. For example, grain is a nightmare with its basic
price of 1,000 Credits per ton and the average hauling fee of 500 Cre-
dits per ton and parsec, while general colonization equipment with a
much higher basic price of 100,000 Credits per ton is much less affec-
ted by this distance problem.

Except for AG, most items is has no real effect on. @5000 $100 iPods/ton. The end user price diff is nothing

 

[far-trader]

You're asking the wrong question. This is a sort of Schrödinger's cat situation.

At the starport there is a warehouse for freight to that J6 destination. Inside it there may be freight or there may not be. The only way to know is to open the door. And the only key to the door is a J6 ship going to that world. Until and only IF such a ship comes along will you know if there is freight in there or not.

What you should be telling such a player is:

There are no J6 trade ships between here and there so there is no freight destined to there, at least not from here. You're welcome to buy some goods and speculate though. Or you could build a J6 freighter and start making the run to see if there is enough trade to support it. Or examine the possible rules and rolls to see if it is feasible.

You should not imo be rolling and going "Gee. There is! What will ever happen to that orphaned 24tons of freight that will never have a J6 freighter to take it?

..picture a starport warehouse like that at the end of Indiana Jones, only bigger, and it's all freight that has been collected for a thousand years for that world 6 parsecs away, slowly accumulating and going nowhere.

 

[DFW]

What you should be telling such a player is:

There are no J6 trade ships between here and there so there is no freight destined to there,

Incorrect. Read the Trade Rules.

 

[far-trader]

What you should be telling such a player is:

There are no J6 trade ships between here and there so there is no freight destined to there,

Incorrect. Read the Trade Rules.

...non-existent J-6 freighter.

 

[Rikki Tikki Traveller]

But remember, what the Free Trader is carrying is only the left-overs, the scraps of the J-6 trade between those worlds.

The 24-tons of stuff is there, because the J-6 freighter hasn't made port in a couple of weeks and things are starting to build up. Once it arrives, that cargo volume will drop to zero and then slowly start building up again until the next visit.

Your characters are only seeing the trade system at one point in time from the outside.

They will never see, nor roll for, the 3000 tons of J-6 freight that is always carried by that freighter; their 24-tons are what fell off the truck on the way to the freighter; got forgotten in the corner etc.

 

[DFW]

...non-existent J-6 freighter.

You don't get the point.

 

[DFW]

But remember, what the Free Trader is carrying is only the left-overs, the scraps of the J-6 trade between those worlds.

The 24-tons of stuff is there, because the J-6 freighter hasn't made port in a couple of weeks and things are starting to build up. Once it arrives, that cargo volume will drop to zero and then slowly start building up again until the next visit.

:lol:

Now, that IS funny.

 

[far-trader]

...non-existent J-6 freighter.

You don't get the point.

Obviously, since I quoted the point :roll:

Don't bother replying, I find this line of posting pointless and am dropping it.

 

[DFW]

You don't get the point.

Obviously, since I quoted the point :roll:

No, you don't. The point was subtext. EI: Per the OTU, trade DOES extend further than just 2 parsecs. Per the trade rules, it really can't.

 

[GamerDude]

In the GURPS Traveller economic system the freight agent would "auction off" the cargo to the lowest bid for the transport to the destination planet within the time frame agreed upon by the customer waiting for it.

Actually, without anything gurps that's close to what happens RL anyway. Something sits around too long or past the contracted date it gets sold off.

And to answer the original question, let me quote the Traveller Core book

Characters not wishing to risk speculative trade can go for the safer option of shipping freight. Freight shipments pay Cr. 1,000
per ton for shipping a ton for one parsec, +200 Cr. per additional parsec. Freight lots must be transported in their entirety, and come in three sizes:

The basic shipping cost is the same whether it's a 6 x J1 or a simple J6. I can see paying more to do the J6 because you'll get it in one week not six (or three if taken by a J2).

"Auctioning off" cargo to be carried isn't very reliable and is a huge opportunity for price fixing. When you look at what MGT says, the quoted gurps book makes zero sense (but its rules for an ATU so not surprising).

So realistically, the shipper is going to get that cargo out and not wait not have it sit on the docks just because a J6 didn't come in and they didn't want to use a J2 or J1.

 

[DFW]

And to answer the original question, let me quote the Traveller Core book "Page 160" Characters not wishing to risk speculative trade can go for the safer option of shipping freight. Freight shipments pay Cr. 1,000
per ton for shipping a ton for one parsec, +200 Cr. per additional parsec. Freight lots must be transported in their entirety, and come in three sizes:
So realistically, the shipper is going to get that cargo out and not wait not have it sit on the docks just because a J6 didn't come in and they didn't want to use a J2 or J1.

Yes we know this. That is why the original question. Which isn't answered by your post. Good try though.

 

[DFW]

Okay, after much thought vis-a-vis market forces and real life econ I think I got it.

Since there would really be no J-3+ freighters out on fringes we have J-1 & J-2 freighters. Goods would be carried by them. However, this locks them into a set route for the duration which means not "tramping" during that time. They are in effect chartered to carry it.

This means 1: covering the costs of the ship + a very small profit. 2: It means the market would force splitting the cargo lots for best fit in available ships.

So, I take my Econo Trader J-2 - 72 tons cargo (since it's cheaper to operate than a Far Trader model.)

Monthly costs:
168,964 - Mortgage
3,755 - Maintenance
20,000 - Life support
9636 - 5% profit
Cr202,355 Monthly charter cost.
72 tons.

A J-2 would take 1 1/2 months so; Cr303533 divided by 72 tons = 4216 per ton.

 

[rust]

A J-6 would take 1 1/2 months so; Cr303533 divided by 72 tons = 4216 per ton.

A little more than this, because the freight agent who chartered the ship
would also have to pay the wages of the crew, at least about 15,000 Cr
for 1 1/2 month for a pilot and an engineer, which would add approxima-
tely 210 Credits per ton.

 

[DFW]

A J-6 would take 1 1/2 months so; Cr303533 divided by 72 tons = 4216 per ton.

A little more than this, because the freight agent who chartered the ship
would also have to pay the wages of the crew, at least about 15,000 Cr
for 1 1/2 month for a pilot and an engineer, which would add approxima-
tely 210 Credits per ton.

Thanks for catching my omission on the calculation. You are correct.