War of Souls

[Voltumna]

Challenging an opponent into a War of Souls is a standard action. What type of action does it take for the target to resist?

 

[sidkfjjteidlkkf]

I believe it is an immediate action to resist a spell. Could be a standard, do not have the book here.

 

[Voltumna]

I was thinking about dabblers and the fact that they are technically sorcerers, which makes them subjects of a war of souls challenge. It seems that it would be perilous for a dabbler if he ever finds himself face to face with the wrong full fledged sorcerer. I think that short of running before being challenged, the dabbler has little chance of avoiding the challenge and being drained to unconsciousness.

Just a thought.

 

[Clovenhoof]

I don't think the Dabbler qualifies as Sorcerer and, hence, is not subject to the War of Souls. A Dabbler, as the name implies, barely knows what he is doing. Hence the exclusion of most sorcery styles. You can "dabble" in Counterspells, Curses and Divination -- all of those don't require active, intent use of magic.
For example, you might be just particularly resistant to magic. Or someone unto whom you unload the most violent trashcan of obscenities actually _does_ wake up teh next day with a thousand camel fleas crawling over his asshole. Or that you somehow have an inexplicable moment of clarity that urges you to take _this_ way and not _that_.
That's how I interpret dabbling. Nothing sorcerous about it. So any real Sorcerer doesn't pose a greater threat to you than to anyone else.

 

[Krushnak]

If you have power points, which a dabbler does then you count as a sorceror. so yes a dabbler can be drawn into a war of souls. it's best not to meddle in things half heartedly.

 

[Style]

I don't think the Dabbler qualifies as Sorcerer and, hence, is not subject to the War of Souls. A Dabbler, as the name implies, barely knows what he is doing. Hence the exclusion of most sorcery styles. You can "dabble" in Counterspells, Curses and Divination -- all of those don't require active, intent use of magic.
For example, you might be just particularly resistant to magic. Or someone unto whom you unload the most violent trashcan of obscenities actually _does_ wake up teh next day with a thousand camel fleas crawling over his asshole. Or that you somehow have an inexplicable moment of clarity that urges you to take _this_ way and not _that_.
That's how I interpret dabbling. Nothing sorcerous about it. So any real Sorcerer doesn't pose a greater threat to you than to anyone else.

Where would you put Conan using the rune of Jhebbal Sag?

 

[Majestic7]

I've always interpreted the rules that Dabblers get all weaknesses of a true sorcerer except possibility for obsession, but few of the strengths. As it is, it is a pretty bad feat since you can use it only once per month.

What comes to War of Souls, Secrets of Skelos contains additional rules about it. Mainly, there is a Battle of Wits, if you want the War of Souls to be its own separate combat, where the sorcerers involved are sort of struck in hallucinatory terrain, which they can change by their willpower to gain an edge against the other. (Such as making the other guy sink in to a swamp, turn oneself in to a huge snake and so forth.) It works if all characters are involved in the War of Souls, otherwise everyone not involved will get bored to death (or just stab the frozen sorcerers to pieces in the real world meanwhile).

 

[Clovenhoof]

@Style:
I'd also say it doesn't take a sorcerer to use/scribe a rune. I'm not sure that interpreting the rune as magic spell and Conan using it making him a dabbler are ideal ways of converting story to game content. Be that as it may, let's keep in mind REH did not design Conan using the MGP rules.

Or let's look at it the other way round: if using the rune makes Conan a sorcerer (try and tell him THAT to his face), did we ever see a hostile sorcerer engaging in a war of souls with Conan?

 

[Style]

Clovenhoof: Not disagreeing with you, but are you going to let just anyone scribe a rune and gain spell like benefits in your game? I think many GMs wouldn't allow this. It's an interesting question.

 

[Majestic7]

Clovenhoof: Not disagreeing with you, but are you going to let just anyone scribe a rune and gain spell like benefits in your game? I think many GMs wouldn't allow this. It's an interesting question.

You could make this just a Craft (Bodypaint) or Knowledge (Arcana) check.

 

[Voltumna]

Just to add to my original comment: my point is that I never thought that becoming a dabbler could be potentially dangerous. I think it makes sense to consider dabblers as sorcerers for all practical purposes. The fact that they merely dabble in sorcery makes them weak at sorcerous things, and thus vulnerable.

Also, I was referring mainly to dabblers that are not scholars, but dabbler scholars that are also at a disadvantage because of their low power points which constitute a buffer against power points drains and mental exertion while in the WoS contest. The disadvantages for non scholars would be the low magic attack bonus and very likely lower charisma bonus, plus the fact that a mere dabbler can't beneffit from the bonuses granted by hypnotism for the WoS bonus check. I had never considered this until I thought about making a character with the dabbler feat, and the disadvantage was clear.

All this may be obvious, but I was mainly thinking of a likely scenario that may arise from it. Because of the rule of the sorcerer's soul, sorcerers are able to identify each other, and once that happnes, they may pierce deeper into the soul of the other sorcerer, and potentially find out if he is corrupt or how powerful. Now, if the prying party is merely a dabbler, the most powerful sorcerer would know this as well, since he would be perceived as weak because of low power points. This might be inconvenient for a scholar that is trying to conceal his sorcerous nature and much more if his corruption.

As for the runes and if Conan was a counterspells dabbler, I never quite liked that idea when I saw it on Conan's stats. I haven't read the story where he uses the rune of Jhebbal Sag, but as far as I recall from other stories, he doesn't dabble in other counterspells, so the idea of a craft or knowledge skill to get the protection is interesting.

 

[Majestic7]

Just to add to my original comment: my point is that I never thought that becoming a dabbler could be potentially dangerous. I think it makes sense to consider dabblers as sorcerers for all practical purposes. The fact that they merely dabble in sorcery makes them weak at sorcerous things, and thus vulnerable.

I think it fits fine to the atmosphere is being a dabbler can be very dangerous... after all, it means playing with things the character does not fully understand. However, I agree that Conan has never struck me as a dabbler. Hence my suggestion on how to explain him using the Rune .

As for the runes and if Conan was a counterspells dabbler, I never quite liked that idea when I saw it on Conan's stats. I haven't read the story where he uses the rune of Jhebbal Sag, but as far as I recall from other stories, he doesn't dabble in other counterspells, so the idea of a craft or knowledge skill to get the protection is interesting.

Besides, why is the rune in Counterspells? It would make much more sense to be part of Nature Magic.