Victory vs 36 Tethys - Results

[Wing Commander]

Ok, we played out the 36 Tethys vs 1 Victory game this morning and it was very very close, but the Victory won in the end.
The Missile boats weren't fantastic as they needed 5's to hit and just couldn't get enough through to do serious hits. The Tethys beamers though were nasty little critters and fair chewed through the Excaliburs' hull.
I started off by trying to shoot my way through the Tethys by splitting fire but that didn't really work so I eventually switched to pouring fire into 1 of the tightly packed bunch and hoping for a nice juicy explosion. That seemed to work better.
We have a full battle report with breakdown, pictures, etc which we'll post tomorrow but the Victory had taken 90 pts of damage and 100 crew damage by games end leaving it hanging on by a thread. Given that it has adaptive armor this is an actual whacking great 180 damage it soaked up! On top of this it had taken an obscene amount of vital crits, out of 16 crits about 8 were vital systems and it took 2 6-6 crits as well. Without this massive amount of crit bombing it would have survived a lot better, by the end of the game it had also lost every single trait! The Interceptors went early on and the adaptive armor went before the end of the game.
All in all, the game was a real laugh with the Victory constantly winning initiative but being hounded by hordes of little ships which were banging away on the hull constantly. In the end though, the Victory did survive (just).

 

[Lord David the Denied]

I'll be very interested to see this report...

 

[zulu01]

I know a lot of people have been complaining about the hoard fleet but I frankly love the idea. As long as it isn't overtly powerful, I think it adds an entirely new dimension to the game.

After all, the Battle of Leyte Gulf was about PT boats versus the pride of the Japanese fleet for much of that battle.... why not the same idea in space?

 

[Davesaint]

Ok, we played out the 36 Tethys vs 1 Victory game this morning and it was very very close, but the Victory won in the end.
The Missile boats weren't fantastic as they needed 5's to hit and just couldn't get enough through to do serious hits. The Tethys beamers though were nasty little critters and fair chewed through the Excaliburs' hull.
I started off by trying to shoot my way through the Tethys by splitting fire but that didn't really work so I eventually switched to pouring fire into 1 of the tightly packed bunch and hoping for a nice juicy explosion. That seemed to work better.
We have a full battle report with breakdown, pictures, etc which we'll post tomorrow but the Victory had taken 90 pts of damage and 100 crew damage by games end leaving it hanging on by a thread. Given that it has adaptive armor this is an actual whacking great 180 damage it soaked up! On top of this it had taken an obscene amount of vital crits, out of 16 crits about 8 were vital systems and it took 2 6-6 crits as well. Without this massive amount of crit bombing it would have survived a lot better, by the end of the game it had also lost every single trait! The Interceptors went early on and the adaptive armor went before the end of the game.
All in all, the game was a real laugh with the Victory constantly winning initiative but being hounded by hordes of little ships which were banging away on the hull constantly. In the end though, the Victory did survive (just).

That's why I would have gone for the all beam tethys. 4+ to hit with a 2 AD beam plus you might roll up. No interceptors and it's double damage.

Dave

 

[Lord David the Denied]

Incidentally, how about trying a big ship like the Victory vs all fighters worth its own points?

 

[Soulmage]

I know a lot of people have been complaining about the hoard fleet but I frankly love the idea. As long as it isn't overtly powerful, I think it adds an entirely new dimension to the game.

After all, the Battle of Leyte Gulf was about PT boats versus the pride of the Japanese fleet for much of that battle.... why not the same idea in space?

There were some PT boats involved certainly. . . but there were quite a few cruisers, battleships, and carriers that did most of the heavy lifting in destroying the Imperial Japanese Navy as an effective fighting force.

Oh yeah. . I guess a few destroyers in Taffy 3 helped out too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Leyte_Gulf

 

[Arch Lector Petrovski]

I know a lot of people have been complaining about the hoard fleet but I frankly love the idea. As long as it isn't overtly powerful, I think it adds an entirely new dimension to the game.

After all, the Battle of Leyte Gulf was about PT boats versus the pride of the Japanese fleet for much of that battle.... why not the same idea in space?

I guess it simply depends on how you play your game. Some people prefer fleets of smaller ships, and I can see the benifit of that, but others prefer to go for a few larger heavy hitters; which also has its merits. In different battles I've both had large ships survive bucket loads of attacks and more attack dice thrown at them than you would resonably expect to see during two whole shooting phases. Or on the other hand I've taken a raid level hyperion and sliced a previously undamaged battle level Morshin to pieces in a single shooting phase. Both have their merits and the only real judge of which is better is the general choosing his force, and only in reference to his own choices.

 

[Hans Olo]

the Victory did survive (just).

Would be very interesting to see what happens to a ship without adaptive armor.(or using only beam Thetys)
I guess it wouldn't get nearly as close in the end.

 

[Arch Lector Petrovski]

the Victory did survive (just).

Would be very interesting to see what happens to a ship without adaptive armor.(or using only beam Thetys)
I guess it wouldn't get nearly as close in the end.

The problem is if the fleet of smaller ships is selected to specifically to knock out a specific Armageddon ship then they will succeed. Ideally one player should chose an Armageddon level ship and the other gets 1 Armageddon point to spend on nothing higher than Skirmish level ships, possibly Raid. Either way niether player should know the race or ship chosen until they arrive for the battle, thereby effectively eliminating the choice of a specific crack fleet. Plus if you want to do it completely accurately then no dice should be rolled, instead relying on precise probabilities and averages. But then it gets kind of boring and dry, only using probabilities and statistics.

 

[Locutus9956]

In all honesty though would you really choose an Armageddon ship OTHER than the Victory, its alot closer now than in 1st Ed but Id still say the Victory is the clearcut best of the pack (just for sheer survivability with adaptive armour and loads of interceptors)

 

[katadder]

i think the adira or drakh mothership would also give them a good run. as would the ka'bin'tak due to sheer damage and slow loading e-mines.
then theres the neroon, get in the middle and it has more firepower in all arcs combined than the victory puts out.
the victory is actually the worst of the armageddon ships for taking on multiple opponents as it has limited arcs whereas most other armageddon ships have alot of firepower in all arcs.

 

[Right Hand of God]

would you really do it using probabilities and statistics instead of dice? It's a game! Probability and statistics can allow you to judge what should happen and how well you are doing against the norm but they can never replace the luck and fickle whim of the dice gods

 

[Arch Lector Petrovski]

i think the adira or drakh mothership would also give them a good run. as would the ka'bin'tak due to sheer damage and slow loading e-mines.
then theres the neroon, get in the middle and it has more firepower in all arcs combined than the victory puts out.
the victory is actually the worst of the armageddon ships for taking on multiple opponents as it has limited arcs whereas most other armageddon ships have alot of firepower in all arcs.

Hence the suggestions for the battle that I suggested. Personally I love ships like the Adira, Victory and so on. They are iconic of large scale engagements and a testement to the engineering capabilities of the races that build them. That doesn't mean I''ll always take one when I can or that they are without flaws, but I like the option to take one as the models are really nice and the expression on your oponents face as they start thinking 'how the hell am I gonna shift that?' is absolutely priceless. And if nothing else it is always going to be an extremely expensive distraction, they can't shoot the rest of your fleet as easily if the Armageddon level vessel is getting all their attention.

 

[angelus2000]

I'd actually put the Adira over the Victory in surviving swarm fleets. GEG 3 is a fair powerful defense againts little ships packing maybe 4-8 effective firepower, and its Dam/crew tracks are pretty hefty as well. Tack on every weapons system is DD, TL, Beam, Precise in some combination against hull 4 or 5 patrol ships.....

 

[Stonehorse]

Glad to hear that a swarm of smaller ships isn't as over powered as some where saying. This I think is due to the change in Critical hits being player friendly.

Looking forward to seeing pictures.

 

[Green_Knight]

yes i think the adira would be far better against swarm fleets,
but this woudl be teh reason NOT taking her for a test.

You should bring up a good ship that is not esspecially good
against swarm fleets and the other one should bring up a swarm
fleet.

The victory is clearly a good choice for this one.

Thanks for the testing.

 

[Stonehorse]

You should bring up a good ship that is not esspecially good
against swarm fleets and the other one should bring up a swarm
fleet.

Think a Shadow ship might be interesting, it's fast, has good shields, and packs one hell of a punch. The only problem is that it only has 1 offensive weapon.

 

[Celisasu]

Of course wouldn't it be more accurate to do 1 Victory vs. 64 Tethys as that's what the real value is supposed to be? It's only that breaking one armageddon point into patrol ships forces you to do a bad breakdown.

 

[Burger]

Of course wouldn't it be more accurate to do 1 Victory vs. 64 Tethys as that's what the real value is supposed to be? It's only that breaking one armageddon point into patrol ships forces you to do a bad breakdown.

That is exactly the good thing about playing a game at 1 point Armageddon! It penalizes swarm fleets and gives enough advantage to large ships, to balance the natural advantage that swarms have in ACtA.

This is the proof - seems like a very balanced fight!

Now try that at 5 point Raid. 40 Tethys versus... err you can't even get a Victory. Tara'Lin plus White Star?

Bye bye ISA...

 

[Locutus9956]

Id disagree with the 'multiple arcs thing. All the other armaggedon ships DO have multiple weapon arcs so if it gets in the middle of the swarm yes they can fire at multiple ships at once:

But.

Your talking about 1 big ship vs 32 little maneuverable ones. If the swarm side has a CLUE, it will never end up with ships in multiple arcs no matter how the initiative rolls go!

Secondly the victorys weapons are for the most part, turreted so no matter where the swarm goes it can bring them ALL to bear.

In fact for my money the only real advantage to the multiple arcs in this situation is being able to lose ones your not using to crits but again if you lose one, chances are the swarm fleet will, mostly, park itself there so your just as screwed then!

Furthermore GEG, yes all well and good but when your talking about 32 patrol ships worth of attack dice its going to be crit city and crits ignore GEGs, so here I think interceptors win by miles in general and adaptive armour just means it will take a LONG time t actually KILL the Victory.

The Adira is a good ship, so is the Shadow Ship, so are various others (the Neroon though frankly wouldnt stand a chance, anything that relies on stealth for a sizeable chunk of its surviveablitiy is going to die HORRIBLY when theres 32 chances to break that stealth!)