Varients mostly gone in 2e?

[zulu01]

I understand that many if not all of the various variants for 'basic' ships are going away in 2e.

I hope this is not the case.

Some variants seem underpowered, to the extent that when you look at them you would conclude there is no reason to include one in your list. Killing or changing these makes sense. But variants that give you two reasonable choices - short range punch or a single long range torpedo strike, for example, make total sense to me.

Variants like the Sho'Kov Torpedo Cutter versus the normal beam-equipped Sho'Kov, or the Vorchan / Vorchar give the fleets variety and flavor.

Why would eliminating these kinds of variations help the game system? Just seems less fun to me.

 

[Da Boss]

Hmm well Centauri ships that have gone:

Balvarix - well the Balvarian at Raid has much of the same abilities as the old one at battle.

Vorchat/Vorchar - the Corvan replaces the scout and the war raider is not really needed with the Vorchan and Demos both at Skirmish (although there is an argument for a new Vorchan at Raid/Battle based on Lost Tales)

Tertius- dodgy ship in 1st ed and not now needed - 4 very different Battle level ships to choose from

Prefect - very dodgy ship in 1st ed

Now it would be nice to have another War Level choice in due course........Maybe a Drakh enhanced Balavlain with Rutarians?

Alot of vairents remain - ED Hyperions for instance and the Narn Patrol cutters but they have removed many redundant ones.

 

[Triggy]

For the most part there are as many variants as before - particularly EA, Vree and Drazi. Centauri are the main ones to lose a lot of variants but this is partly due to them having so many ships to choose from in the first place. One or two fleets have gained variants such as the Drakh and Dilgar.

 

[emperorpenguin]

or the Vorchan / Vorchar give the fleets variety and flavor.
.

as Da Boss said, why would you want a Vorchar when the Corvan is at skirmish now? Having two scouts would be over the top.
The Vorchat went because there is no evidence for fighter carrying vorchans and the Demos got moved down to skirmish

 

[CZuschlag]

The Dilgar are now the ones positively crawling with variants:

Garasoch-class (heavy carrier)
Jashakar-class (attack patrol ship)
--Jashakar-Vi (patrol scout ship)
--Jashakar-Tae (patrol bombardment ship)
Khatrik-class (planetary ground assault ship)
--Khatrik-So (combat-situation assault ship)
Mankhat-class (dreadnought)
--Mankhat-Py (bombardment dreadnought)
Mishakur-class (command ship)
Ochliavita-class (bombardment destroyer)
--Ochliavita-Ki (command destroyer)
Omelos-class (agile cruiser)
Rohric-class (light ground assault ship)
Targrath-class (cruiser)
Tikrit-class (battlecruiser)
Thorun-class (superiority fighter)
--Thorun-Torpedofighter (bombardment fighter)
Wahant-class (heavy cruiser)

That's 6 variants on 12 classes; that's quite a lot. Now, mind you, a few of the ships are still atrocious (the new Ochliavita leaves a TON to be desired --- it takes two of them to even come close to the value of a Vorchan!)

 

[KJ]

The Vorchat went because there is no evidence for fighter carrying vorchans

While I won't miss the Vorchat in ACTA, a scene in "The Coming of Shadows" (season 2, episode 9 IIRC) shows Sentris coming out of hyperspace alongside Vorchans without the aid of a jumpgate. While this doesn't necessarily mean that they were deployed from the Vorchans, it also doesn't exclude the possibility of the fighters being launched from them. The "evidence" is there, depending on your interpretation of the scene. :wink:

 

[scorpioni]

That's 6 variants on 12 classes; that's quite a lot. Now, mind you, a few of the ships are still atrocious (the new Ochliavita leaves a TON to be desired --- it takes two of them to even come close to the value of a Vorchan!)

Meh I was delighted to hear about the bombarding ochlavita but after your comment I'm not so sure anymore. Does the command version also suck? What other choices are atrocious?

 

[Poi]

The command versions does not suck. +1 to CQ checks for the pentacon? YUM! I'll use them to lead pentacons, regardless of type.

 

[Locutus9956]

Also worth noting is there is as much evidence for fighter launches from Vorchan hulls as there is for the EXISTENCE of oh.... 95% of the ships in the Centauri list. Being Canonical is all well and good but you cant say 'we never saw that on screen therefore its a stupid variant'.

Don't get me wrong, I for one wont miss the Vorchat one bit but I wouldnt have minided it hanging around either!

 

[Greg Smith]

Thorun-class (superiority fighter)
--Thorun-Torpedofighter (bombardment fighter)

That's 6 variants on 12 classes; that's quite a lot.

Since it has a miniature of its own, it isn't technically a variant. But 5 new variants is a lot.

 

[emperorpenguin]

Also worth noting is there is as much evidence for fighter launches from Vorchan hulls as there is for the EXISTENCE of oh.... 95% of the ships in the Centauri list. Being Canonical is all well and good but you cant say 'we never saw that on screen therefore its a stupid variant'.

Don't get me wrong, I for one wont miss the Vorchat one bit but I wouldnt have minided it hanging around either!

no it's more of the WYSIWYG line of thinking. You'll notice every ship in the Centauri fleet capable of carrying fighters has a hangar bay visible.

 

[Da Boss]

Out of interst do you think the new Vorchan has fighters (Lost Tales) it certainly has a shuttle...............

 

[emperorpenguin]

Out of interst do you think the new Vorchan has fighters (Lost Tales) it certainly has a shuttle...............

no I don't, we clearly see a Balvarin, that's most logically where the fighters came from

 

[Da Boss]

I do think its a different Vorchan though - next generation?

 

[emperorpenguin]

I do think its a different Vorchan though - next generation?

new sentris too

it'd be nice to see them in the game one day

 

[Da Boss]

settles the "Centauri don't have beams" as well?

I am hoping for a Lost Tales Section in the Year book Matt was talking about in his bit on ACTA!?

 

[emperorpenguin]

settles the "Centauri don't have beams" as well? !?

not seen it, how so?

 

[Greg Smith]

Out of interst do you think the new Vorchan has fighters (Lost Tales) it certainly has a shuttle...............

no I don't, we clearly see a Balvarin, that's most logically where the fighters came from

The Balvarin is not in the same scene as the shuttle that aparently departs the Vorchan. Since you haven't seen it, I won't say more.

 

[emperorpenguin]

Out of interst do you think the new Vorchan has fighters (Lost Tales) it certainly has a shuttle...............

no I don't, we clearly see a Balvarin, that's most logically where the fighters came from

The Balvarin is not in the same scene as the shuttle that aparently departs the Vorchan. Since you haven't seen it, I won't say more.

I know that from the trailers, but in B5 Wars (and the RPG) most (if not all) ships carry a shuttle or two (since this ain't Star Trek and there's no beaming down Scotty)

 

[MustEatBrains]

settles the "Centauri don't have beams" as well? !?

not seen it, how so?

Well yes, they use giant energy beams to destroy a city 30 years in the future, in a vision sent by a Technomage which doesn´t even have to have been the truth. The new vorchanesque ships still fire their good old energy bolts of doom (tm). So yes, adding some sort of bombardment laser in place of the good old mass drivers might be interesting for ships dedicated to attacking planets. Big deal.