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Anonymous
Guest
Since vampires have no constitution, what is their massive damage threshold, if any?
TheAuldGrump
Mongoose
As far as I can make out OGL Steampunk doesn't have any rules for Massive Damage. Though I use a Massive Damage Threshold of 2xCon anyway, 'cause I want my players to try to avoid getting shot at, eh? But it makes Vehicle Weapons ludicrously lethal.
But as undead they would be immune to death by massive damage anyway except by day. (I treat Vamps as having a 10 Con by day.) On the otherhand they die at 0 HP, not necessarily a good tradeoff...
The Auld Grump
But as undead they would be immune to death by massive damage anyway except by day. (I treat Vamps as having a 10 Con by day.) On the otherhand they die at 0 HP, not necessarily a good tradeoff...
The Auld Grump
El Diablo Robotico
Mongoose
This question applies to COGs as well. Hmm...
I was fiddling with the idea of using the Star Wars D20 method of doing damage, which requires a CON score too. Wounds are subtracted from CON, but vamps and COGs don't have CON.
I was fiddling with the idea of using the Star Wars D20 method of doing damage, which requires a CON score too. Wounds are subtracted from CON, but vamps and COGs don't have CON.
I think the point of massive damage is to reflect "system shock," but if you have no system, you have no shock. IMO, creatures with no CON score are not affected by massive damage rules.
Cogs, in particular, need to (and probably do) have unique rules for that sort of them. E.g., they lose a limb or something.
Cogs, in particular, need to (and probably do) have unique rules for that sort of them. E.g., they lose a limb or something.
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Anonymous
Guest
OGL steampunk has massive damage. Re-read the combat chapter ((world of adventure)). It functions similarly to the wound points from starwars, and makes combat very deadly for even 20th level chars. There are also feats in the feats chapter that allow you to raise massive damage threshhold.
A
Anonymous
Guest
In case you are lazy, here is the skinny;
every char's damage is limited by his constituition score. If he take more damage than that, fort save vs dc 15 or go down to -1 hp.
Point in note: Just because its ogl doesn't mean the combat chapter has the same thing standard ogl does, and thus can be glossed over.
I really like the ruling, adds in grittiness and makes combat a less viable option.
Anyhow, hopefully someone can answer the original question. Since vamps do not have constitution, they either have no massive damage threshold ((VERY powerful, since it means they can take their total hp in damage)) or something else...
every char's damage is limited by his constituition score. If he take more damage than that, fort save vs dc 15 or go down to -1 hp.
Point in note: Just because its ogl doesn't mean the combat chapter has the same thing standard ogl does, and thus can be glossed over.
I really like the ruling, adds in grittiness and makes combat a less viable option. Anyhow, hopefully someone can answer the original question. Since vamps do not have constitution, they either have no massive damage threshold ((VERY powerful, since it means they can take their total hp in damage)) or something else...
TheAuldGrump
Mongoose
Xex said:In case you are lazy, here is the skinny;
every char's damage is limited by his constituition score. If he take more damage than that, fort save vs dc 15 or go down to -1 hp.
Point in note: Just because its ogl doesn't mean the combat chapter has the same thing standard ogl does, and thus can be glossed over.
Anyhow, hopefully someone can answer the original question. Since vamps do not have constitution, they either have no massive damage threshold ((VERY powerful, since it means they can take their total hp in damage)) or something else...
Doh! You're right, there it is... Don't know why I didn't see it before. Though it isn't in the index. Boy that makes the X10 damage for Vehicle weapons nasty! (Don't get hit by an artillery shell I guess...)
The Auld Grump
A
Anonymous
Guest
Aye, and don't forget the feat Increase Massive Damage Threshold ((or whatever its called )) . It increases any characters threshold by +3. ((but has no other effect on constitution)). And it is deadly no? Makes combat less of an option, yet still more than viable for those who like flashy combat now and then. ((like me)). Also makes firearms and sorcery more deadly. I have not yet read the vehicle chapter, but yeah, if you are right it means a character on foot should not be tangling with vehicles; unless he is a powerfull occultist. Just as it should be IMO.
But back to the original query; what about vampires adn ghosts who have no constitution score? As much as I like vampires I do not think they should have 0 threshold; I was thinking somewhere along the lines of limiting it to 20. i.e. vampires have a threshold of 20. But I will balance it by giving them +2 DR/-. This DR will not stack with the dr provided by mistform.
Ideas?
)) . It increases any characters threshold by +3. ((but has no other effect on constitution)). And it is deadly no? Makes combat less of an option, yet still more than viable for those who like flashy combat now and then. ((like me)). Also makes firearms and sorcery more deadly. I have not yet read the vehicle chapter, but yeah, if you are right it means a character on foot should not be tangling with vehicles; unless he is a powerfull occultist. Just as it should be IMO.But back to the original query; what about vampires adn ghosts who have no constitution score? As much as I like vampires I do not think they should have 0 threshold; I was thinking somewhere along the lines of limiting it to 20. i.e. vampires have a threshold of 20. But I will balance it by giving them +2 DR/-. This DR will not stack with the dr provided by mistform.
Ideas?
A
Anonymous
Guest
Oh and by the way, I think houseruling that damage done over and above damage threshold actually adds to the fortitude save; this way even high level chars wont be able to make their saves too easily.
TheAuldGrump
Mongoose
Xex said:
Though you may want to divide that number, perhaps one per five points above the threshold - those pesky vehicle weapons again... A quote from the Vehicle and Artillery Weapons heading (p. 236) "A vehicle weapon has a base damage die based on its size. Note that this is structure damage, not hit point damage. A vehicle weapon striking a creature or object deals 10 points of hit point damage for every point of structure damage, and ignores armor and hardness."
A small weapon deals 1d4 structure damage, a medium deals 1d6, a large 1d8 etc. So even a small vehicle mounted weapon deals 10-40 hit point damage on a successful strike. Ow! Even with a the feat even a 2 is likely to cause a massive damage check, and for the average joe even the lowest damage forces a check. (10 Con is the average for non elite NPCs.)
CoGS do not nead to worry about Massive Damage (p. 16) "A CoGS has no Constitution score and therefor has no metabolism. It is immune to any effect that requires a Fortitude saving throw unless the effect works on objects or is harmless."
Vampires have a similar quality, except ithat it is not affected by effects that affect objects.(p. 24).
Neither one has any special rules pertaining to negative HP, so I would say that they are affected by the normal rules for -1 to -10 HP.
The Auld Grump
Yeah, I'd noticed the feat, but could not find the rules... ah well.
A
Anonymous
Guest
But don't you think it would make vamps a little too overpowering? I am already considering the following for a game I will run hopefully soon:
Vamps:
+2 STR, +2 DEX, -4 WIS, +2 CHA
Automatically recieve the following traits:
Claws ((natural weapons trait tree, or whatever its called))
Fangs
On first selection Can use the following traits a number of times per day = CHA mod; each additional selection allows use a number of times = 1/2 CHA mod:
Wild Shape
Mist Form
Command
The following traits can be used a number of times = 1/2 CHA mod:
children of the night
swarm
Damage Reduction: 2/magic and silver. Does not stack with mistform.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is still somewhat rough, keep in mind.
I was considering, as I said before, giving them massive damage 20. But in lieu of that, how about they do not go down to -10 hp, since they automatically are unsuccessful at fort saves?
Vamps:
+2 STR, +2 DEX, -4 WIS, +2 CHA
Automatically recieve the following traits:
Claws ((natural weapons trait tree, or whatever its called))
Fangs
On first selection Can use the following traits a number of times per day = CHA mod; each additional selection allows use a number of times = 1/2 CHA mod:
Wild Shape
Mist Form
Command
The following traits can be used a number of times = 1/2 CHA mod:
children of the night
swarm
Damage Reduction: 2/magic and silver. Does not stack with mistform.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is still somewhat rough, keep in mind.
I was considering, as I said before, giving them massive damage 20. But in lieu of that, how about they do not go down to -10 hp, since they automatically are unsuccessful at fort saves?
TheAuldGrump
Mongoose
Yeah, I can see that, and balancing the no massive damage rule with no negative HP kind of works, but also don't forget that just being a vamp eats up 3 out of 4 of the character's background points. (Humans can end up being real powerhouses.) In my campaign there are 4 humans, 1 CoGS and 1 ghost, for the reason that humans prod buttock.
And since there actually is a rule for Vamps, CoGS and Massive Damage I might as well go for it.
Having a 10 Con by day can be a problem, giving them just a bit of an edge point creation wise, I am thinking about dropping Con to an 8 by day, an all liquid diet ain't too good for you, making daytime a good time for them to stay safe indoors.
The Auld Grump
And since there actually is a rule for Vamps, CoGS and Massive Damage I might as well go for it.
Having a 10 Con by day can be a problem, giving them just a bit of an edge point creation wise, I am thinking about dropping Con to an 8 by day, an all liquid diet ain't too good for you, making daytime a good time for them to stay safe indoors.
The Auld Grump
