V 2.0 Planet biospheres and ...ALIENS !
- Thread starter captainjack23
- Start date
captainjack23
Cosmic Mongoose
pasuuli said:
So, to get that, you need about a 1.5/1.6% average chance of a sentient native race per any planet. (lifeless planets will have a 0%, better planets a better %).
Once you have it, the old 2d6 for 11+ = human variant = close enough (8%)
So, my parameters (truncated to 1 decimal...this isn't rocket science, here):
average races per subsector =.6 (40 x 1.5)
Average races per sector = 9.6 (14 x .6)
Average human variants per sector =.7
Chance of a subsector having at least one race = (1 -.015)^40= .55
captainjack23
Cosmic Mongoose
pasuuli said:
?????
captainjack23
Cosmic Mongoose
Main post is now updated to V 2.0
Now with feedback, oxygen, and some cleaner mechanisms and explainations !
Now with feedback, oxygen, and some cleaner mechanisms and explainations !
Rikki Tikki Traveller
Cosmic Mongoose
pasuuli said:
I think you have that reversed:
2D roll:
11 = Native (Minor) Race
12 = Human Variant
This goes back to a basic 2D-2 for Complexity:
0: Basic, Pre-cellular life
1-4: Simple, single-celled life (corals and such)
5-6: Complex, multi-celled life (sea life and maybe land plants)
7-8: Complex Biosphere (sea and land and air life)
9: Native Intelligence
A: Transplanted Race (Human, Chirper, Droyne whatever)
Now you would have a roll for Life being present (with DMs based on ATM and HYD, this is also where you have non-oxygen life)
DMs on your complexity for non-oxygen life might include an automatic -1 so that native life is much harder and no chance of transplants.
I know there is much less of a chance for non-oxygen complex life or intelligence due to the chemical energy of Oxygen vs other possibilities, but this IS a SciFi game and if you don't have Hydrogen or Methane breathing aliens, well, what fun is that?
Rikki Tikki Traveller said:
That's kinda like saying "iron is boring, I don't see why we should make anything out of that... it's more fun to use gold or palladium instead!".
You can get a nigh-infinite variety of lifeforms just using carbon and oxygen, including the most likely stupendously rare (if even remotely possible) hydrogen- or methane- or ammonia- or halogen-based ecosystems just for the sake of "coolness" seems a bit overkill.
It's a SF game - I think it matters more that there are aliens and starships in it, not that the aliens are the one in a zillion forms of life that live on methane.
Rikki Tikki Traveller
Cosmic Mongoose
Perhaps, but what about the already canonical alien races that breath something other than Oxygen?
The Jgt whatevers that breath Hydrogen; the Shadows in the SM.
I KNOW it is more realistic to only allow oxygen breathers, but I DO think that "coolness" and all that do count in this case, perhaps more than reality. YMMV of course and if you don't want non-oxygen breathing aliens then that is certainly your right, but I think the precident is set and I for one don't want to change that.
I think there is just too much literature out there with these weird alien races for Traveller to NOT include them, no matter how unrealistic it might be.
The Jgt whatevers that breath Hydrogen; the Shadows in the SM.
I KNOW it is more realistic to only allow oxygen breathers, but I DO think that "coolness" and all that do count in this case, perhaps more than reality. YMMV of course and if you don't want non-oxygen breathing aliens then that is certainly your right, but I think the precident is set and I for one don't want to change that.
I think there is just too much literature out there with these weird alien races for Traveller to NOT include them, no matter how unrealistic it might be.
captainjack23
Cosmic Mongoose
EDG said:well yeah, there's not much to be done about the races that are already there, but I guess my point is that we don't need to add more
Well, I can't say I agree. This is one of those situations where the game ethos takes precedence. Vile atmosphere aliens are a feature of SF and traveller. Not making more simply eliminates them in practice.
Let's not go to a discussion of the extremes or the possibility of non o2 Carbon life. This is to generate native life and natives for flavor as much as anything, so unusual flavorings can be used, as it were....
In any case, non-oxy life is explicitly allowed in the assumptions here, so its kind of a non-issue. I 'll check the frequency of non 3-9 worlds getting life though, so I'm glad it came up.
There's something else at work too -- large native populations, small (and large) native colonies, and their environmental needs.
Yorbund was a colony world for aliens. Before it failed, it would probably look like a "mainworld" on a subsector list, even though it's a colony. And its atmosphere is nasty -- to humans. Maybe to the aliens it was like gentle, warm, salty air. "Perfect beach weather again, wot?" "Oh aye"...
And, supposing many Imperial worlds aren't all human? Maybe they've got billions of people because they're alien homeworlds. What if Mora or Glisten or Strouden are 10% (or 50%, or 90%) non-human?
Yorbund was a colony world for aliens. Before it failed, it would probably look like a "mainworld" on a subsector list, even though it's a colony. And its atmosphere is nasty -- to humans. Maybe to the aliens it was like gentle, warm, salty air. "Perfect beach weather again, wot?" "Oh aye"...
And, supposing many Imperial worlds aren't all human? Maybe they've got billions of people because they're alien homeworlds. What if Mora or Glisten or Strouden are 10% (or 50%, or 90%) non-human?
captainjack23
Cosmic Mongoose
pasuuli said:
In fact, it was described as a paradise for the colonists -who were an anti technology ....cult ? Religion ? Philosohy ? Club ?
Yeah, that was always one solution....look at it as the Raj in india - somthing like 3% European administrators and colonists (tech 5-6), the rest the locals (tech 2-4)...with the 3% in charge.
I'm sure that OTU canon mentions that the POP is the huiman population somewhere, doesn't it ? Or is it one of those unspoken assumptions ?
captainjack23
Cosmic Mongoose
Heres some summaries of how life and natives breakdown across ATM types.
The ratio of life/sentience on A+ planets is interesting - it implies that there will be less life overall for A+ planets, but if these is, more liklihood of sentience. I'll doublecheck this to see if its a bug. It may be that the overall life on 3-9 atm planets is overinflated by the "minimum Life Potential of 1 if ATM = 3-9 )rule.
Its an interesting consequence of the model if so....life is rarer on crap atm worlds, but the challenges lead to sentience more often.
Code:
count all planets 100010
-------------------------------------------
Life on worlds with A+ ATMOS 9419
------------------------------------------
Life on worlds with 3-9 ATMOS 66583
------------------------------------------
Life on worlds with 2- ATMOS 9350
-------------------------------------------
sentient natives on ATM A+ worlds 722
--------------------------------------------
sentient natives on ATM 3-9 worlds 711
-------------------------------------------
sentient natives on ATM 2- worlds 0The ratio of life/sentience on A+ planets is interesting - it implies that there will be less life overall for A+ planets, but if these is, more liklihood of sentience. I'll doublecheck this to see if its a bug. It may be that the overall life on 3-9 atm planets is overinflated by the "minimum Life Potential of 1 if ATM = 3-9 )rule.
Its an interesting consequence of the model if so....life is rarer on crap atm worlds, but the challenges lead to sentience more often.
captainjack23
Cosmic Mongoose
Life on worlds with 3-9 ATMOSand LP>1 53048
so about 13000 of the atm 3-9 worlds are LP 1; (this includes bad rolls as well as the O2 = life rule).
So. Not that. Still checking.
so about 13000 of the atm 3-9 worlds are LP 1; (this includes bad rolls as well as the O2 = life rule).
So. Not that. Still checking.
captainjack23
Cosmic Mongoose
results on first postings have been updated for the 100k run, and the version 2 code.
Data inlcudes basic counts, and native tech x pop breakout.
Data inlcudes basic counts, and native tech x pop breakout.
captainjack23 said:
Hi, this caught my eye. I don't know if it's mentioned or not in CT or MT (it would be good to know for sure).
One of the concepts for T5 is that high pop worlds are often sophont homeworlds, where perhaps half of the population is non-human. The balancing element is that most sophonts have not spread beyond their homeworld, and few travel. So the probability of encountering them diminishes to nil beyond a handful of parsecs.
captainjack23
Cosmic Mongoose
Rikki Tikki Traveller said:
Having the complexity scale with actual correspondences is not a bad idea, not at all; a similar concept from White Dwarf in the waybackwhen was my standard generator for years. my main reason for not keeping that is that it commits to a specific progression of life forms, which is ultimately built from our one example. Which is quite a reaonable approach to defining life. Just not one I'm comfortable with.
I'm fine with highly complex intelligent coral species , actually. Possibly, more comfortable than with some earth derived sentients, truth be told. :wink:
Although, in practice, when forced to work in "off-the-cuff' mode, I admit Iwould probably tend to describe biospheres, in earth evolutionary terms.
One more thing, and this is a niggle I admit, the rolls of 9 & A dont reproduce the native:transplanted ratio from the OTU. Comes out at about 3:1 as opposed to the OTU 10:1.
Rikki Tikki Traveller
Cosmic Mongoose
My intent was not to try to model Earth evolution in particular, but evolution in general.
Life must be complex to be intelligent. That was my basic assumption.
As complexity increases, diversity and expansion into other realms (such as land and air creatures) becomes possible and even probable. I make no assumption that the intelligence will be land based or air based, but I THINK that is more likely since sea-based intelligence will have a hard time developing technology without fire.
I don't want to get into a debate about whales being intelligent or anything, but I don't think anyone can argue that they are NOT technological and that is the basis of Intelligence in Traveller (it's TECH level, not Intelligence Level).
I tried to apply common sense without being too specific. You be the judge of if I succeeded or not.
Life must be complex to be intelligent. That was my basic assumption.
As complexity increases, diversity and expansion into other realms (such as land and air creatures) becomes possible and even probable. I make no assumption that the intelligence will be land based or air based, but I THINK that is more likely since sea-based intelligence will have a hard time developing technology without fire.
I don't want to get into a debate about whales being intelligent or anything, but I don't think anyone can argue that they are NOT technological and that is the basis of Intelligence in Traveller (it's TECH level, not Intelligence Level).
I tried to apply common sense without being too specific. You be the judge of if I succeeded or not.
captainjack23
Cosmic Mongoose
Rikki Tikki Traveller said:
Hmmm. You know, that got me to reread your original post with the table, I think I misremembered your post to be more like the old WD table I used than it is.
You're right, it is quite aspecific; I was wrong.
Rikki Tikki Traveller
Cosmic Mongoose
It also leaves things open with regard to the Transplanted races. No mention of native life is used there. It will have to be re-rolled or selected by the GM.
This would allow for Vland where local life was not very compatible with humans, or Lair where (I assume) things were a bit easier, since it is not mentioned in Canon that I am aware.
In some cases, the native life would be very primitive and replaced almost completely with Exo-Planetary life. In some case, the native life might be very complex and be waging a war against the invading life. In still other cases some kind of balance would be achieved. All up to the GM.
This would allow for Vland where local life was not very compatible with humans, or Lair where (I assume) things were a bit easier, since it is not mentioned in Canon that I am aware.
In some cases, the native life would be very primitive and replaced almost completely with Exo-Planetary life. In some case, the native life might be very complex and be waging a war against the invading life. In still other cases some kind of balance would be achieved. All up to the GM.