My guess is they wouldn’t have any Inertial Compensation since High Guard specifically states that Inertial Compensation is a part of the maneuver drive itself.
Updated Vehicle Handbook in the works
- Thread starter Geir
- Start date
You have literally attacked every post I have made even after I proved my point right. And what source do you quote in your claim that 101 Vehicles is wrong? Cite it please.
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
Inertial compensation is not a design option in Striker, nor are artificial gravity floor plates.
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
No, I haven't "attacked" - I have questioned the source of your statements and I am usually correct.
DGP took Traveller and re-wrote it to produce MegaTraveller, they got a lot wrong in the translation, usually because they didn't know the CT rules and systems as well as thy should have done.
Examples.
The revision to jump fuel use that took place in HG79 and was carried forward for example, DGP went back to the CT77 all fuel used regardless of jump distance.
Frank Chadwick and Dave Nilsen have both stated the CT m-drive should be some sort of reaction drive fusion engine DGP changed it for MT, it was changed back for TNE.
There are a lot more.
As to the validity of 101 Vehicles, the Imperial Army is not going to build brand new TL14 front line equipment, and even the original author of the Astrin and Trepida have said they were TL15.
I would like to see grav movement/options explicitly called out. There have been numerous semantical arguments over anti-gravity vs. contragravity, and how exactly are grav vehicles moving (even the lowly grav belt).
So let's be sure to DEFINE it (and to everyone else contragravity and anti-gravity are equivalent in operations), and also HOW it's supposed to work. Does it ONLY do LIFT, or can it incorporate both lift AND drive? One would be led to believe that it's capable of both vis-a-vis the classic air/raft vehicle. And we've seen plenty of other vehicles with no apparent air intakes for normal thrust exhaust, so all the textual and visual evidence points to a lift and drive capability. It's just never explicitly talked to.
And since we are going down that path, the book will have to differentiate somehow and explain exactly why the ubiquitous air/raft is so slow yet a family car also using grav technology is so much faster. Is it streamlining? Is it because the air/raft's gravitics are less powerful?
While not a vehicle, per se, I think it's very closely related - just how do things like robots, drones and missiles utilize gravitics for very slow movement to very fast movement? Would ever grav unit have the ability to assign separate capabilities for lift and drive? Which would mean some vehicles can float, but not move, while others could move and not float?
So let's be sure to DEFINE it (and to everyone else contragravity and anti-gravity are equivalent in operations), and also HOW it's supposed to work. Does it ONLY do LIFT, or can it incorporate both lift AND drive? One would be led to believe that it's capable of both vis-a-vis the classic air/raft vehicle. And we've seen plenty of other vehicles with no apparent air intakes for normal thrust exhaust, so all the textual and visual evidence points to a lift and drive capability. It's just never explicitly talked to.
And since we are going down that path, the book will have to differentiate somehow and explain exactly why the ubiquitous air/raft is so slow yet a family car also using grav technology is so much faster. Is it streamlining? Is it because the air/raft's gravitics are less powerful?
While not a vehicle, per se, I think it's very closely related - just how do things like robots, drones and missiles utilize gravitics for very slow movement to very fast movement? Would ever grav unit have the ability to assign separate capabilities for lift and drive? Which would mean some vehicles can float, but not move, while others could move and not float?
MasterGwydion
Emperor Mongoose
I think this last part Geir was looking into. Grav that provides lift, but not thrust due to Our conversation about My stupid Grav-trains. lol... Engines have lift and thrust, while the train cars just have lift.
Funny Marc has said it’s not a reaction drive fusion engine “ Maneuver Drives Are Gravity-Based. The theoretical underpinnings of Maneuver involve the strength of gravita- tional fields from stars and worlds. The practical result is that In-System Drives operate within specific distances of stars and worlds, and are essentially unusable beyond those dis- tances.
Compensators. Integral to Maneuver Drives, Gravitic Drives, and Lifters is an inertial compensation component which counteracts the effects of acceleration on occupants of the ship.” T5. I would say that Marc trumps both Chadwick and Nilsen. M-Drive was not a reaction engine in CT. In fact TNE invalidated a lot of the core tech that Marc created for Traveller. Since one of the Goals of TNE was to try to do to Marc what TSR did to Gygax. I would say if any edition was invalid it would be TNE since they change large parts of Marc’s original game. PGMP & FGMP using ammo instead of a portable fusion plant, lasers using cartridges instead of batteries the list goes on and on of things that were rewritten for TNE. The fact it’s your main source for every argument just make your argument weaker. MegaTraveller which you hate was at least had the core books written by Marc according to Marc. Who has never once said he didn’t.
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Here another misleading point. In CT 77 it was said without a jump governor program in your computer you used all the fuel when you jumped. HG 79 omitted this because jump governor was standard not the same as a revision. Even T5 supports this “A Jump Governor modifies the operation of a Jump Drive allowing any jump performance equal to or less than the drive’s rating. A Jump-4 drive that by itself can only per- form Jump-4; equipped with a Jump Governor can perform Jump-3, Jump-2, or even Jump-1.
A Jump Governor is integral to a Standard or higher tech level Jump Drive; an Experimental, Prototype, or Early Jump Drive does not have a Jump Governor.” But again you probably don’t consider Marc as a legitimate source.
I've always thought that the idea of repulsors would fit well within Traveller. A repulsor would act more like an ACV, whereby the field only works within say 2m of the ground. But it's cheaper than full anti-grav, so you'd see classes of vehicles that would act like wheeled vehicles, but not need roads. Overpowering the repulsor would get you temporary height, say to get over an obstacle, but not expected to leap tall buildings or fly. It would work great for industrial equipment like pallet jacks or even equipping containers or other cargo things in an industrial society.
Always hated the concept of jump governors. Thought it was a bit silly. Kind of like the differences they had with refined/unrefined fuel and distinctions between the military and civilian. I'd have to go look it up from the original LBB's what they had said about scout ships and how they specifically did not need to worry about using refined fuel.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
I tend to think that gravitational based motors are somewhat similar to flying.
There are different methods to achieve the same result, though underlying physics remain the same.
There are different methods to achieve the same result, though underlying physics remain the same.
The problem was that they just said that scout and military ships didn't have to worry about unrefined fuel without any indication of how or why. Then they added the onboard refineries which didn't solve the problem because they were like 50 tons and up.
Then then they allowed them to get small, it meant all the civilian ships had them too. Just a mess.
Regulators kind of work as a feature of prototypes and other early version tech. But mostly they are just "oh we changed the rules and here's some fluff on why".
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
He didn't write them Joe Fugate et al did, which you would know if you had read the interviews with Joe.
My sources are what ever provides insight, rather than your continual desire to win the interwebs.
Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
How is it misleading?
You really do need to relax a bit and stop being so deliberately provocative.
In CT 77 all jump fuel was used per jump, there was no jump governor at all, it was not mentioned.
In 79 High Guard changed this for the bespoke drives of the High Guard paradigm and introduced the jump governor so that LBB2 ships could use jump fuel in the same way.
The CT revision of 81 never mentioned jump governors, the fuel use became standard as described in HG 79.
It remained like this for HG80, TTB and ST.
Then the folks at DGP went back to the CT 77 fuel use paradigm, which was scrapped once again in TNE, T4, T20, GT, etc.
T5 mentions the jump governor once again as a bit of fluff.
MGT does not need a jump governor and fuel is used in the way described by HG79.
You mean the say guy who blames Marc for his company going under. They same guy how said he saved Traveller. No im more inclined to believe Marc who said he did have a strong hand in the core MegaTraveller book and only ask Joe to provide support books.
Marc had absolutely nothing to do with TNE in fact it was an attempt to remove Marc’s name from the game just like D&D 2ed did to gygax. T4 does mention jump governors in passing. T20 and GT as well as HT are all licensed products that have their own takes to the game and our alternative universes. T5 specifically doesn’t mention Jump Governor as fluff since it specifically states “an Experimental, Prototype, or Early Jump Drive does not have a Jump Governor.” That statement alone saids that it’s not fluff in fact there is almost no “Fluff” in T5.
TNE vastly rewrote the tech system of Traveller across the board and if Marc wasn’t the great guy that he is it would have probably been removed from the setting. It’s so full of counter dictating nonsense to make the system useless. A virus that the message’s inflicts you with cannot be quarantined.
MgT2 has done a excellent job in general of merging the divergent tech rules from TNE while staying true to Marc’s Travellers
agentwigggles
Cosmic Mongoose
Cramped would be a good vehicle tag. To measure that the operating space, is well, cramped. Jet fighter cockpits, tank driver positions. Maybe multiple tags of the Cramp tag infere a DM -2 to operating the vehicle outside of the locomotion skill.
Hostile would also be nother good tag. The operating enviroment of a vehicle is hazard to the crew. Train conductors. Boiler room operators, stream train breakline men (the one that had to run along the top of trains to apply the brake manually). First blush is raises the TN of the task by +2, and a MoE -1 or lower requires an END or Dex check on a fail 1d3 damage stun damage. Or If the MoE less than 3, require a END or Dex check and on fail take 1d3. The problem with the this is that its a wholely new success metric. Like MoE <2 roll END/Dex on fail take 1d3 Damage stun.
There are other means to represent this, like the hostile atmosphere for planets that is in the companion, though I think that would be really slow to do at the table. Encorporating it explictly as part of vehicles, would make it a better consideration by community members and authors alike as well easier therefore hopefully faster to manage at the table.
Hostile would also be nother good tag. The operating enviroment of a vehicle is hazard to the crew. Train conductors. Boiler room operators, stream train breakline men (the one that had to run along the top of trains to apply the brake manually). First blush is raises the TN of the task by +2, and a MoE -1 or lower requires an END or Dex check on a fail 1d3 damage stun damage. Or If the MoE less than 3, require a END or Dex check and on fail take 1d3. The problem with the this is that its a wholely new success metric. Like MoE <2 roll END/Dex on fail take 1d3 Damage stun.
There are other means to represent this, like the hostile atmosphere for planets that is in the companion, though I think that would be really slow to do at the table. Encorporating it explictly as part of vehicles, would make it a better consideration by community members and authors alike as well easier therefore hopefully faster to manage at the table.
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Adult diaper.
Also recommended for high acceleration without inertial compensation.
Also recommended for high acceleration without inertial compensation.
