Upcoming Traveller products
- Thread starter AndrewW
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TrippyHippy
Emperor Mongoose
Don't forget the Pirates and Codename: Veil settings.
The more new topic books we see the better it will be...I for one will NOT buy any LBBs. Why should I when I have the full version book that it is based off of and has all the information within it too, thus the LBB will be sized down material and will also be a rather fatter book too. I didn't buy the Pocket Book either, for the same reasons. I am willing to spend money on my hobby and have done so alot of the past 34+ yrs but to by 2nds of books that are slightly incomplete with lessor data or info just to look like the former books from 25+ yrs ago...where the logic in that?
Penn
Penn
DigitalMage
Mongoose
The Pocket Rule Book had the same page layout as the full size book (minus the footnotes) so it didn't have a higher page count and thus wasn't any fatter. I am assuming the LBBs will be the same (and hopefully won't have footnotes cut out).Bygoneyrs said:
For some people the LBBs may not be a second copy - they may be a primary copy. For over a year I had just the pocket rulebook for Traveller (and the PDF of the book) and read it twice, I only picked up a full size copy at Conception this year as I wanted a copy to sit alongside the GM Screen and Spinward Marches I also boughtBygoneyrs said:
Bygoneyrs - Pocket Core is just a physically scaled down version.
It was/is missing the footers and appears to have suffered from a font issue that resulted in missing multiplication signs - otherwise it is identical.
The reprints do not appear to be simply to provide a LBB version - rather to provide another print run and fix earlier versions. In an alternate format that may ultimately be more profitable to most parties.
LBB sized is half the physical material and likewise lower in shipping weight and dimensions. This means greater profits for MGP and/or lower price - which means more money for more stuff (either MGP or the buyer - who can then afford more MGP goodness).
Not to mention, the smaller size is a lot easier on table space (and book shelf space) and, I for one, prefered the look of the fonts (not so glaringly bold).
Of course, some people (and retailers) may only prefer the larger, more wasteful, sizes. And I do think the font size might be too small for some people's vision. I would love to see the same weight font at a slightly larger size - wth full margins (scaled down versions wasted a lot of page space due to different aspect ratio - at least for U.S. dimensions). Good layout and editing should make this possible without resorting to a lot more pages.
It was/is missing the footers and appears to have suffered from a font issue that resulted in missing multiplication signs - otherwise it is identical.
The reprints do not appear to be simply to provide a LBB version - rather to provide another print run and fix earlier versions. In an alternate format that may ultimately be more profitable to most parties.
LBB sized is half the physical material and likewise lower in shipping weight and dimensions. This means greater profits for MGP and/or lower price - which means more money for more stuff (either MGP or the buyer - who can then afford more MGP goodness).
Not to mention, the smaller size is a lot easier on table space (and book shelf space) and, I for one, prefered the look of the fonts (not so glaringly bold).
Of course, some people (and retailers) may only prefer the larger, more wasteful, sizes. And I do think the font size might be too small for some people's vision. I would love to see the same weight font at a slightly larger size - wth full margins (scaled down versions wasted a lot of page space due to different aspect ratio - at least for U.S. dimensions). Good layout and editing should make this possible without resorting to a lot more pages.
DigitalMage
Mongoose
It wasn't just the Pocket Core Book that suffered this issue, the PDF of the main traveller rulebook (yes it has all the footers) is missing the milutiplication sign as well. Maybe I should check DriveThruRPG.com to see if an updated PDF has been uploaded?BP said:
Ok I have played Traveller since it first came out and for "ME" I perfer the larger format books...thank you very much. I have a HUGE gaming Library by anyone's standards and I do not want to buy LBB to add to it either. I like my gaming materials to be "printed" and in the industry norms for format size. The BS about saving shelf space for the smaller sized books is a load of "Bull"! The book still needs to go on a shelf and still takes up space (thickness wise), now it might not be as deep or tall as the rest of the books but "SO WHAT". I have solid Oak Bookshelves in my Library and they are packed with all sorts of books and many full units are packed with gaming resource materials. All my books for D&D ver 3.5 d20, Pathfinder revised 3.5.1 d20, Conan d20, Hero System v5 revised, BRP, and many different versions of Traveller materials are all using the "Industry Standard" size format. So what savings really would it be to make or have the smaller books? Lets get real? Now most players don't have all the original LBBs. I have ALL of them first printing, as well as the LB formated Traveller Journals as well too(also in the same size). Do I display those items that are like 20-25+ yrs or older..."NO". I have them each in book protective bags with a cardboard backing stored in comic book boxes along with the many comics I have collected over the past 40 yrs as well too.
Sorry but it really bugs me when gaming companys come out with these smaller off size products, like Unisystem Games Rules with their line of "All Flesh Must Be Eaten". It is a great series of products that makes for a real nice resource on Zombies ( a favorite monster of mine). I wish the books were in the standard size format. When one has as much stuff as I do, the hole these smaller books makes in ones library is visable. I usually pull the books forward to at least make them look even with the rest of the books on the same shelf.
Sorry for getting on my Soapbox but this is something I really feel strong about!
Penn
Sorry but it really bugs me when gaming companys come out with these smaller off size products, like Unisystem Games Rules with their line of "All Flesh Must Be Eaten". It is a great series of products that makes for a real nice resource on Zombies ( a favorite monster of mine). I wish the books were in the standard size format. When one has as much stuff as I do, the hole these smaller books makes in ones library is visable. I usually pull the books forward to at least make them look even with the rest of the books on the same shelf.
Sorry for getting on my Soapbox but this is something I really feel strong about!
Penn
DigitalMage
Mongoose
I think you really need to accept that not everyone is the same as you, and that for some these LBBs are a good option.Bygoneyrs said:
I just got rid of a load of gaming books because I was running out of shelf space, and actually I have moved one shelf in my bookshelf up so that I can fit two boxes of dungeon tiles in the shelf below. Now that means I have a shelf that could fit LBBs on, but not full size books - so for me it is not BS about saving shelf space (currently that shelf holds titles such as Savage Worlds Explorer's Edition, Mongoose Pocket Players Guide & Pocket GM Guide, Lacuna, HardNova ][ etc. LBBs wouldn't look out of place next to them).
Now, if Mongoose were only putting out new books in LBB size I could maybe understand your frsutration, but AFAIK these LBBs are in addition to the full size books.
Do you buy PDFs? If not why aren't you complaining about Mongoose releasing their books in that format too? It takes them some amount of effort to produce a PDF and get it uploaded to DriveThruRPG.com.
Appreciate your point of view Bygoners.
However, Industry standard size is not the larger size. Yes, a lot of roleplaying is - but roleplaying is only a niche market in the publishing industry. I have tons of books (literally) and the majority are 7'x9' NOT U.S. Letter or A4! That is about 1/3 smaller in terms of commerical book space. Digest is even smaller.
If one is debating physical reality and cost - the digest wins hands down - providing significantly lower material, shipping, and storage costs - plus lower inventory taxes if cost is reduced. Even large print paperbacks are keep smaller - for ease of portable reading and costs.
To touch on another point - the paper industry is a huge polluter - while paper is based on a renewable resource - it also is partially responsible for deforestation - and all the toxic chemicals used to process it and in inks are appalling (besides, many people cannot read in a confined space due to the toxicity of many papers and inks). Visit a paper mill sometimes - I've worked in power plants, refineries, and waste treatment plants - but by far the worst industrial place I've every been in is a paper mill!
I build my own book cases (my favorite is a rotating, roll around design that houses 30% more books in a given space than a traditional book shelf). Three quarters of my shelves are for smaller sizes. (I no longer store Magazines - way too wastefull and a pain when moving - I tear out pages and scan the better ones - since I rarely need them.)
I am an avid reader/book lover - but I look forward to true electronic books (the kindle is way getting there). If you ever have to move Bygoneyrs, you'll appreciate the smaller sized books (and don't trust movers with your library - you'll invariably regret it...)
However, Industry standard size is not the larger size. Yes, a lot of roleplaying is - but roleplaying is only a niche market in the publishing industry. I have tons of books (literally) and the majority are 7'x9' NOT U.S. Letter or A4! That is about 1/3 smaller in terms of commerical book space. Digest is even smaller.
If one is debating physical reality and cost - the digest wins hands down - providing significantly lower material, shipping, and storage costs - plus lower inventory taxes if cost is reduced. Even large print paperbacks are keep smaller - for ease of portable reading and costs.
To touch on another point - the paper industry is a huge polluter - while paper is based on a renewable resource - it also is partially responsible for deforestation - and all the toxic chemicals used to process it and in inks are appalling (besides, many people cannot read in a confined space due to the toxicity of many papers and inks). Visit a paper mill sometimes - I've worked in power plants, refineries, and waste treatment plants - but by far the worst industrial place I've every been in is a paper mill!
I build my own book cases (my favorite is a rotating, roll around design that houses 30% more books in a given space than a traditional book shelf). Three quarters of my shelves are for smaller sizes. (I no longer store Magazines - way too wastefull and a pain when moving - I tear out pages and scan the better ones - since I rarely need them.)
I am an avid reader/book lover - but I look forward to true electronic books (the kindle is way getting there). If you ever have to move Bygoneyrs, you'll appreciate the smaller sized books (and don't trust movers with your library - you'll invariably regret it...)
Ok firstly i reread my posts and they come off a tad bit "harsh" in tone and I am sorry for that.
As to moving, well I am in my dream home a 172 yr old Victorian and I plan on DIEING here<g>! With all the renovations and etc that I have done over the past 4+ yrs here, I'm taking it with me when I die from old age. Then my kids will have to deal with the clean up and clean out. For me though both of my kids have turned out to also be gamers and much prize dad's library. All of their gaming friends Ooh and Ahhh everytime they come over and see it. I am also a collector of minatures and table top wargaming, and I am even a Boy Scott Master, and merit badge counsilor for Collections<VBG>! I use my gaming table and library, plus figures to help teach that merit badge and currupt young minds to become RPGers and Table Top Wargamers<VBG>!!! :twisted:
Anyway my gaming library that I am quite proud of does not fit what your saying rather about 95% of my stuff is all Printed paper format and 8.5" by 11" format. I also DO NOT buy anything .pdf at all. Also for the record I am a Sr.Oracle DBA/IT Professionial and much perfer a good old solid book. I have no problems at all taking a book with me to read on the "throne" either...the lighting is good in there and it is usually quiet if my two cats will leave me alone.
I guess my "concern" would be if Mongoose were to totally do all the books in the LBB format. Firstly I am getting older and my eyes are not what they once were. I now need glasses from time to time to read with. For me I also like all the pictures and footnotes and etc within the larger 8.5 x 11 format books. As to the GREEN stuff, well this old dog with a large gaming friendly wallet wants "paper only" products, surprisingly my kids also like the paper stuff as well too! They complain about trying to read stuff on the PC, and just like the ability to having a hard copy printed version of whatever in hand better.
I know I'm bad...LOL
Penn
As to moving, well I am in my dream home a 172 yr old Victorian and I plan on DIEING here<g>! With all the renovations and etc that I have done over the past 4+ yrs here, I'm taking it with me when I die from old age. Then my kids will have to deal with the clean up and clean out. For me though both of my kids have turned out to also be gamers and much prize dad's library. All of their gaming friends Ooh and Ahhh everytime they come over and see it. I am also a collector of minatures and table top wargaming, and I am even a Boy Scott Master, and merit badge counsilor for Collections<VBG>! I use my gaming table and library, plus figures to help teach that merit badge and currupt young minds to become RPGers and Table Top Wargamers<VBG>!!! :twisted:
Anyway my gaming library that I am quite proud of does not fit what your saying rather about 95% of my stuff is all Printed paper format and 8.5" by 11" format. I also DO NOT buy anything .pdf at all. Also for the record I am a Sr.Oracle DBA/IT Professionial and much perfer a good old solid book. I have no problems at all taking a book with me to read on the "throne" either...the lighting is good in there and it is usually quiet if my two cats will leave me alone.
I guess my "concern" would be if Mongoose were to totally do all the books in the LBB format. Firstly I am getting older and my eyes are not what they once were. I now need glasses from time to time to read with. For me I also like all the pictures and footnotes and etc within the larger 8.5 x 11 format books. As to the GREEN stuff, well this old dog with a large gaming friendly wallet wants "paper only" products, surprisingly my kids also like the paper stuff as well too! They complain about trying to read stuff on the PC, and just like the ability to having a hard copy printed version of whatever in hand better.
I know I'm bad...LOL
Penn
Oh - I still prefer paper as well!
I even like the feel and smell - though I am one of those who gets sick if someone just opens a magazine or, heaven forbid, a newspaper in a closed car.
I am amazed by coworkers who can stand PDF on landscape screen displays - I can't tolerate it myself. That is why all my monitors for nearly 20 years have been large and support portrait (and more expensive - sigh). I even worked for a few years using a projector rotated to portrait. Recently, I have found a 32" 1080 HD screen custom portrait mounted (and cooled) to be perfect for viewing PDFs and text.
However, I still can't take it n the throne room! (well it does roll, but it gets cramped, and the cords present a certain health risk )
So, for years I've had expensive color laser printers (the big, heavy ones - even though I mounted them on wheels) - I've been nick-named tree-killer in the past.
I love the kindle - its lighter than most books, the screen is crisp and highly visible in sunlight. it also comes in a larger size Bygoners!
But its not yet color - and doesn't support writing yet... I also love me some tablets and hand recognition - but while the recognition has been excellent for years, the apps are still lacking.
Its nice to finally see products start to emerge in the consumer sector from technologies developed in the late 70's and early 80's.
I even like the feel and smell - though I am one of those who gets sick if someone just opens a magazine or, heaven forbid, a newspaper in a closed car.
I am amazed by coworkers who can stand PDF on landscape screen displays - I can't tolerate it myself. That is why all my monitors for nearly 20 years have been large and support portrait (and more expensive - sigh). I even worked for a few years using a projector rotated to portrait. Recently, I have found a 32" 1080 HD screen custom portrait mounted (and cooled) to be perfect for viewing PDFs and text.
However, I still can't take it n the throne room! (well it does roll, but it gets cramped, and the cords present a certain health risk
)So, for years I've had expensive color laser printers (the big, heavy ones - even though I mounted them on wheels) - I've been nick-named tree-killer in the past.
I love the kindle - its lighter than most books, the screen is crisp and highly visible in sunlight. it also comes in a larger size Bygoners!
But its not yet color - and doesn't support writing yet... I also love me some tablets and hand recognition - but while the recognition has been excellent for years, the apps are still lacking.
Its nice to finally see products start to emerge in the consumer sector from technologies developed in the late 70's and early 80's.
"BP" you kill me and really make me laugh...I like you and I take my hat off to you! Yes I have been thinking about using my 32" HDTV as a computer monitor for a while now. It would be supported. Heck my kids have both there PS3 and xbox 360 connected up to their 32" HDTV in their room, why not me and my computer too<g>!
As to the LBB, well I am only one old guy that buys alot of stuff and hopefully will keep buying more stuff over the next 20-30 yrs. I hope to keep being able to buy paper format 8.5 x 11 all that time. It is hard to teach old dogs new tricks, you see we old timers hate "change". It's EVIL<g>!
As to magazines...well I collected the Dragon from issue #1 and I remember when they switched over from Ragweed paper to that new stuff (current paper stock) back in lat 20s issues or was it 30s? I hated the feel of the new "paper", but I kept collecting it until the bone heads shut down the Dragon Magazine just before they released their new version of D&D 4, for a Online format magizine. I do not subscribe to that BTW either. I still have all of those in magazine protector bags, and stored in mag boxes. Never to sell in my lifetime, just to have for me<BG>!!!
Penn
As to the LBB, well I am only one old guy that buys alot of stuff and hopefully will keep buying more stuff over the next 20-30 yrs. I hope to keep being able to buy paper format 8.5 x 11 all that time. It is hard to teach old dogs new tricks, you see we old timers hate "change". It's EVIL<g>!
As to magazines...well I collected the Dragon from issue #1 and I remember when they switched over from Ragweed paper to that new stuff (current paper stock) back in lat 20s issues or was it 30s? I hated the feel of the new "paper", but I kept collecting it until the bone heads shut down the Dragon Magazine just before they released their new version of D&D 4, for a Online format magizine. I do not subscribe to that BTW either. I still have all of those in magazine protector bags, and stored in mag boxes. Never to sell in my lifetime, just to have for me<BG>!!!
Penn
Happy to be of service <bow>Bygoneyrs said:
- I assure you I have nothing but kind intentions and enjoy your posts as well...The resting distance of the human eye is typically 4-5 feet - this becomes even more important as we age... 32" widescreen HD seems a perfect size to support this - bigger and one has to sit further away (for extended periods - I'm not talking about simply watching a show or movie - but reading text, especially destined for typical page sizes).
Keep in mind most HD screen are not designed to go portait - as they will overheat (the ventalation is typically designed to be passive - simply allowing heat to rise). FYI - most modern consumer electronic devices are designed to fail within pre-determined time ranges. This is generally accomplished via cheap capacitors (good quality ones cost pennies and dimes more
) - overheating being their primary means of assured destruction. It costs a lot more to make other parts fail reliably (*fail too fast or unpredicatably and the consumer would become non-compliant...)Note I scale the system fonts, etc. up - something that Windows 7 does very well compared to prior versions (Macs do this well for many versions) - a big selling point to me, despite the changes and other issues one might have.
P.S. - I like to make sawdust - Hobby Woodworker(Power Tools) 2, so my monitor stand is custom - its a first run (a bit less aesthetically pleasing and made from leftovers)
serene_muse
Mongoose
Just don't buy the smaller books then mate. Or British / European RPGs, Star Wars Saga, boxed games, paperback novels, trade paperbacks, the new tall paperbacks, most graphic novels or any other book that ruins your uniform library. I'd ramp down the 'tude and showing off the toys and perhaps work on grammar, spelling and post presentation. As is you come off as not worth reading and rather snooty.
Choice isn't a bad thing IMO. The smaller format is cheaper and more portable. I can point somebody to a $20 book and get them to try out a game much more than a slim $40 hardcover book. Savage Worlds $10 full color Explorer's Edition is a very nice form factor and there's a growing line of $20 sourcebooks in the same form factor. Mongoose had a line of pocket OGL books back in the d20 days and they were a nice supplement to the $30-50 d20 core hardcovers. Many RPG hardcovers aren't well made, and Mongoose had a very bad year or so of them that left them with a bad rep for their hardcovers for many. So hardcovers aren't end all be all.
Having a library in a Victorian house that's uniform...just seems Un-Victorian.
Choice isn't a bad thing IMO. The smaller format is cheaper and more portable. I can point somebody to a $20 book and get them to try out a game much more than a slim $40 hardcover book. Savage Worlds $10 full color Explorer's Edition is a very nice form factor and there's a growing line of $20 sourcebooks in the same form factor. Mongoose had a line of pocket OGL books back in the d20 days and they were a nice supplement to the $30-50 d20 core hardcovers. Many RPG hardcovers aren't well made, and Mongoose had a very bad year or so of them that left them with a bad rep for their hardcovers for many. So hardcovers aren't end all be all.
Having a library in a Victorian house that's uniform...just seems Un-Victorian.
Well sorry about the spelling, typos, or etc...it is hard sometimes to do this from work, or for that matter home too. Plus lets not forget I am a US citizen and some words are spelled differently than are spelled in the UK. As for "tone", well to each their own and everyone has their own thoughts on everything. Sorry I guess your comment about "ramp down the 'tude and" must mean in UK slang..."tone". Sorry we USA folks always lock horns with UK folks because even though we use the same basic language..we are Vastly Different Cultures..and our slang words are extremely different than yours.
Penn
Penn
Bygoneyrs said:
Yeah. Let's get real. Smaller book=less space taken=takes less space to store and are cheaper to print to boot. Customers(that's you by the way) save 10£ in main rulebook for example by buying pocket sized version. 5£ with mercenary and high guard. That money can be used to buying more books. You might have no need to take care with cash but with high unemployment rate going on ATM some gamers DO happen to be short of cash...
So you have full sized books and don't need these. Well DUH! Did it occur to you that you might not be target market for these?-) That target would be those who DON'T have mercenary or high guard or main rulebook and want cheaper books which takes less space to store and are easier to handle on gaming board cluttering it less?
Just because YOU don't want them doesn't make them bad idea. More choise is always better than no choise. Just as well might complain that there's no point in selling PDF versions because you have printed version already!
Now real problem is that alternative versions comes so late. LBB versions should be released at same time as full sized. This way both sides are equal.
Many years ago, one of the reasons we played Traveller in High School rather than D&D was the smaller size of the books. Our entire Traveller collections could be stored in our lockers, and toted around with us in our backpacks far easier than our AD&D collections. They could also fit surreptiously inside a mathematics or english textbook without tipping the teachers off.*
Personally, I think it's cool they're being offered in both sizes now. The little books are great for portability, while the larger books are easier on my eyes, and look nicer in my library. If I had the money, I'd buy all in both sizes.
*yeah, it sounds like I slacked off, but frankly, Traveller did more to motivate me to learn math than any HS teacher ever did.
Personally, I think it's cool they're being offered in both sizes now. The little books are great for portability, while the larger books are easier on my eyes, and look nicer in my library. If I had the money, I'd buy all in both sizes.
*yeah, it sounds like I slacked off, but frankly, Traveller did more to motivate me to learn math than any HS teacher ever did.
kristof65 said:
Ditto
