Underpowered Weapons in Judge Dredd ?

[Valaryc]

what do you think ?

the Lawgiver is a damn good weapon....but take the Wall Gun or the Widowmaker as a comparison..... i think the much heavier weapons suck.

ok....more ammo and more range....but thats it !

i think i will "upgrade" the heavier weapons a little to make them attractive.

 

[Arabin]

The weapons, and the way armor and damage are handled are very odd. It's one of those things that really needs to be looked at in detail if 2nd Ed is ever written.

Arabin

 

[Valaryc]

i am playing the D20 Star Wars game too....and in the errata of D&D 3.5 there is somewhere an adaption of a star wars rule:

there are no "hit points" anymore.

everyone has Wound Points & Vitality Points

you have your Con value = Wound Points

vitality points are rolled normaly with the "hit die"

every "normal" hit makes vitality damage. if you have "0" vitality points you "go into the wounds". after you lost your first wound point you are fatigued (=-2 on Strength AND dexterity until all wounds are healed; no running)

every critical hit hits directly your WOUND POINTS (so death is more realistic than with the senseless old hit point system).

"0" wound points = unconciouss

at -10 wounds your are dead (losing 1 point every round after you are at -1) until stabilized by a medical DC 15 roll

the toughness feat bring you 3 more wound points (and no hit points / vitality points).

vitality points regenerate at a rate of Character Level per hour of rest
wound points regenerate at a rate of 1 pont per day of rest

the medical skill heals his ranks in vitality points.

critical hits have NO damage multiplier !!!! if the old multiplier was x2 the threat rating is 19-20, x3 damage multiplier (old) is a 18-20 threat rating.

you heal wounds / vitality points parallel (so if you have wound damage you may heal vitality points...but you are fatigued until all wound damage is healed !)

i/we use this rule from star wars for our Judge Dredd game....and it makes it a lot more fun...deadlier combat with the chance to die from a critical hit....faster healing.

 

[Matt Sharp]

what do you think ?

the Lawgiver is a damn good weapon....but take the Wall Gun or the Widowmaker as a comparison..... i think the much heavier weapons suck.

ok....more ammo and more range....but thats it !

i think i will "upgrade" the heavier weapons a little to make them attractive.

Well, the Wall Gun is capable of inflicting 18D6 damage (18 - 108) with a single shot, and the Widowmaker can inflict 27D6 + 2D8 damage (29 - 178) with a single pull of the trigger...

How powerful do you need?

 

[Valaryc]

yes....but only if you count the maximum hits on rapid fire !

how realistic is it for a med level judge to fire 9 bullets on rapid fire and hit with all of them ? at a -9 modifier for rapid fire ?!?!?!?!?!?

and where is the logic ? look at the size of the wall gun and then at the size of the lawgiver ! it's a heavy assault rifle...and a pistol. but it makes the same amount of damage...and another look....the lawgiver has range of 200 fett on standard rounds (3d6)...wow...the big two-handed assault gun with the same damage has a rangen incr. of 150 feet !!!! come on !


sorry....but i "hate" (don't take it personal please !!!!) math jugglers that show me the maximum possibility (!) of a weapon....in normal game play..they suck ! why take a heavy weapon if my pistol makes the same damage...can fire further....and has different kind of ammo ? because....yeah....i don't know ANY reason but style and more ammo capacity on the other hand every judge has 5 magazine plus the spare clips on the lawmaster...so even that doesn't count.

i play the 3rd part of the Kazan trilogy....and my players say "ah...go home with your petty toys" if i tell them they could get a widowmaker !!!
it's "overweight" in their eyes...and they are right !!!!

 

[Matt Sharp]

You need to take the strip continuity into account, I'm afraid - the Lawgiver Mk. II is going to be better than most of the small arms in the RGJD because it was designed to replace them all. The likes of the Widowmaker and the Wall Gun are obsolete but are still in service - but they are superior (at least in firepower) to their contemporary Justice Department issue side arm, the Lawgiver Mk. I.

The Lawgiver Mk. II has superior range and damage because each shell isn't just a chunk of lead, it's a small missile with a tiny warhead...

The advantage of the Wall Gun and the Widowmaker is the greater rate of fire, greater ammunition capacity and larger armour penetrative power.

 

[Valaryc]

may be they are "superior"....but only if your character is so "high level" that he can handle the negative modifier for rapid fire AND hit something

the lawgiver is of course state of the art ! but in game it's unlogical. the only "advantage" of the heavy weapons judge prestige class is the fact, he gets an assault rifle (in my game as a replacement for the scattergun). but why should anyone take this class if the main "gimmick" is only half as good as the lawgiver ?

why are all these weapons locked in their depots ? in the kazan gambit trilogy MC1 is under extrem emergency (pt III) and at a warlike status. in the missions for the playergroup is everytime a little list with special equipment authorized for that mission. there are widowmakers, a hornet hand gun and so on....the scenario is for 5-6th level judges !!!!!!!! why should anyone bother to carry these weapons if they can hit badly with the high rapid fire modifier....and if he hits...the damage is equal or less (!) than their lawgiver ?

i played it with 4 judges (all level 6)...and the best "shooter" took the hornet minigun...even on the rapid fire 6 mode, he hits maximum 4 times (if he has a lucky dice hand this day)...for 2d6 damage. with the same AP of a standard lawgiver round !

the wall gun has only 2 points more on AP but a lower range than the lawgiver....wow....same for the widowmaker...with only a quarter of the range of a SE bullet from your lawgiver (widowmaker description: "...issued to heavy weapon squads as well as street judges in emergency situations")...so why issue this weapon ? give them more ammo clips for their lawgiver and they have the better solution at lesser weight!

sorry....maybe in theory they are more powerful....but in the daily game...they just suck and are unlogical.

 

[Matt Sharp]

sorry....maybe in theory they are more powerful....but in the daily game...they just suck and are unlogical.

Sorry - I was trying to make the weapons fit with the background of the comic strip.

 

[Valaryc]

of course !!!! and you did it right !!!

but in a RPG there have to be some changes

don't get me wrong...my players love the lawgiver and use them with great passion but in "war scenario" where they can get some "heavy weapons" the expect them not only heavy in weight but in firepower too :lol: