Twilight: 2000

[PrinceYyrkoon]

I think Ive seen a thread for this before, but I couldnt locate it to reinvigorate it again, hence the new thread.

Twilight: 2000, maybe with the Traveller rules, or, even, maybe with its own 1st ed rules...

I dont think 2013 worked, really, and, now that the era has gone, its possibly worth reworking, but I think the opposite, it works best as an alternate history game now.

I prefer the first ed rules too, with a bit of tweaking. Do we have fans of 2nd ed or 2.2 here?

I like the idea of a tweaked Polish campaign too, with extentions.

 

[Shadow4ce]

I preferred the original, and still have it and all the expansions. 8)

 

[aspqrz]

I dont think 2013 worked, really ...

Unbelievably silly background that was ... unbelievable ... coupled with rules that were simultaneously overcomplex and oversimplified ...

What gave you the idea that it "didn't work" ... :shock: :lol: :wink:

Was it the almost complete lack of follow on support material/supplements (except for a few weapon books that only start to make up for part of the "oversimplified" part?) :shock: :shock: :shock:

Phil

 

[Twin Agate Dragons]

Twilight 2000 is among top 5 favorite rpgs. When I was first introduced to it, my GM only had the 1st Ed rules. I've been hooked on it ever since.

 

[SnowDog]

While I really liked 1st edition and that was mainly because of our GM. I never run or played 2.0 or 2.2 but I know the rules from running Traveller:The New Era.

What comes to Twilight:2013 I have only read the rules but they seemed to work. I don't comment about the background because I have only read parts of it (as I knew that I couldn't persuade my players to play in that setting).

 

[Armchair_Marine]

Twilight 2000 Evolution! 'Nuff said!

 

[SnowDog]

Do you mean Twilight:2000 Evolution as a minis game? Why not.

I have been thinking this whole Twilight:2K thing for a while now.

Personlly, if you want a post-apocalyptic setting then I would go all the way to Fallout or Mad Max style (or even further). I don't think that Twilight:2K or Twhilight:2K13 is post-apoc enough for me but rather more or less a military simulation.

For military simulation the setting (in all incarnations) is quite poor in a sense that if you go by the book then you are (almost) all the time short on ammo, fuel, food and most of the time the weather is your worst enemy rather than opposing forces. While the shortages seem to be the daily routine even for American troops it's not in the scale of Twilight

So, in order to get a better (and more fun) military simulation, I would want a setting where you could get your hands on all kinds of military equipment, vehicles etc.

For me, military simulation as an RPG also means more meaty core mechanics than Traveller rules. Without proper testing, I really can't say anything about the Reflex rules (of the latest Twilight re-incarnation). 1st ed. rules were ok but at least 2.2 rules (what comes to damage) were hideous. Yes, I agree that it would be better that PCs would be wounded quite easily and they would need medical attention in order not to die. But that was not enforced in the rules in any way

For a real post-apoc game Traveller rules might work just fine.

 

[SnowDog]

True, I used to run TNE and that's why I know that 2.2 edition was unrealistically unlethal to the point of making pistols nothreat. I know that someone here used d10 as a damage dice and that would have corrected the problem of lethality

I never run Merc:2000 but it seemed OK. Millennium's End was a pretty darn lethal but then again with a good medic you could sometimes save your friend. That sort of lethality is what I am after in technothriller or PMC games. You get easily hurt but often it takes some time to die and with a good medic you might be able to pull it through.

 

[G. K. Zhukov]

True, I used to run TNE and that's why I know that 2.2 edition was unrealistically unlethal to the point of making pistols nothreat. I know that someone here used d10 as a damage dice and that would have corrected the problem of lethality

Alternatively, you could halve the hit points per hit location - I think Frank Chadwick hinted they had doubled that number in order to increase the survival chance of characters in the very lethal environments of both Post-Apoc 21st C Earth and the Traveller's Post-Imperium New Era.
Or at least that's what my old brain seems to recall. :lol:

 

[SnowDog]

I don't remember if there were any discussion about the numbers, only reasoning why the damage was handled that way but I am sure you are correct. Still, I don't see any reason to have an old Twilight:2000 as there is Twilight:2013...

 

[G. K. Zhukov]

...Still, I don't see any reason to have an old Twilight:2000 as there is Twilight:2013...

Nostalgia... I miss GDW, and I miss their old generic House System.

Old fart, myself.

 

[SnowDog]

Yes, there is always nostalgia. I suppose I am (almost) there with you having had a great time with 1ed Twilight:2000.

 

[serene_muse]

Well one of the ex-GDW big three has the rights to the GDW House System and last I heard it was available for licensing out if anyone really wanted to. IIRC it was in Frank Chadwick's hands but FFE has reprinted the first edition and released a cd-rom so dunno.

Twilight 2013...the setting's too near to now (it's 2010 already afterall) and has some gaffs. The rules break with TW2K rules without adding enough advantages to justify using them instead of TW2K or some other system I already know.

I wouldn't mind a near-future post-apoc, merc, spec-ops and techno-thriller supplement or game for Traveller. Mind you could already do this with existing rules, some books and the internet so long as you didn't need loads of weapons, kit and vehicles statted out.

 

[ozchandler]

i'd like to see a t2k game using the mongoose traveller rules set. i would also think the license wouldn't be cost prohibitive like star trek or star wars.

 

[kafka]

Traveller but just change the armour rules... I would like to see 2013 go completely systemless and if a Twilight overlay could be mounted over Traveller. It would be great...I have the perfect adventure for it... and having it as Traveller also means that it does not even need to be set on Earth just some balkanized world circa TL 8-9 and need not include the Imperium (although, my adventure does as the ultimate puppet masters - if you want inspiration read Swycaffer & watch The Road)...and add a bit of paranoia from events around Sept. 11 2001...and you got my adventure.

 

[ozchandler]

i was thinking more along the lines of the year 2100 on earth after the radiation has fallen in some places to a habitable level. it would also give man enough time to re-invent "civilization" in small areas. no cities per-se, but communities rife with dictators and evil do-ers. of course, there would have to be a few smaller communities led by good-hearted and well-meaning folks. they'd be few and far between. and with the planet's human population down to around 6 million total, there would also be large expanses for characters to carve out their own realms, which would present even more challenges for the characters to keep them.

just my nickel's worth

 

[Armchair_Marine]

Now that Mongoose has 2300 AD could this mean we're not too far off from MP's own version of Twilight 2000? Personally, I'd rather see it come back as an EVO minis game.

 

[Jujitsudave]

Team Jacob!!!!!

 

[lastbesthope]

I nearly picked up Twilight 2013 earlier this year so I'd be interested in this.

LBH

 

[Phil Smith]

It will be interesting to see what Mongoose do with the T2k idea - First edition was not really a post-apocalypse game, but a military game in a post-apoc setting (All characters were military, no real guidance on using civilian skills to rebuild - how long does it take, what materials are needed etc), and was actually a fairly brief game (1 24 page and 1 32 page rule book, plus some charts and the equipment book). Ed 2.0 and 2.2 allowed for civilian characters, but still seemed biased towards PCs being military. T:2013 did a much better job of providing for a range of character backgrounds, and provided a much more comprehensive coverage of natural hazards and rebuilding/civilian type activities (and took >300 pages to do it, including equipment lists).
One of the strengths of T2k was that it was contemporary/near future - everything in the game really exists, or is at least a reasonable guess at what might be developed, even if GDW got it wrong. Similarly, it's a 'hard science' post apoc setting: there's radiation and disease and bad guys with guns, there are not mutants or zombies or aliens or killer robots - it's my world, only broken.
So what would I want in a new Mongoose edition?
i) A setting 10-20 years into the future, with the "bad thing" that caused the apoc to have lasted a few years, and be coming to an end: I find T2k to be hopeful to a degree, since the war is ending - rebuilding can now begin and things can start getting better; the T2013 background less so, since the apocalypse is really a whole series of events which are still ongoing.
ii) Real technologies, or sensible extrapolation of what currently exists.
iii) The same sort of comprehensive coverage of environmental hazards and rebuilding that T2013 featured.
iv) A bias towards military based PC groups.
v) A workable small skirmish system, so that the PCs can lead/support 1 to 2 dozen NPCs against a similarly sized group of bad guys.
vi) Properly researched stats for the equipment included (GDW got a few things quite severely wrong, for example armour levels of FV510 Warrior: see here for details http://rpggeek.com/filepage/55444/fv510-revised-and-updated-armour-values , if you don't mind indulging me :wink: ).