Twenty Questions

[bushidokid]

I have just a few questions, a few rules related and a few not.

1.) Power attack, is the amount of damage gained limited by base attack bonus or the negative modifier chosen, e.g. I have a character w/ Pwr Atk and +11 BAB wielding a greatsword, is the max bonus dam he can gain from Pwr Atk. +11 (limited by his BAB) or +22 (Limited by his max negative modifier)

2.) The feat Crush Your Enemy, from the Shadizar Box Set, if you use the destroy armor option, is that damage doubled to 2d4 as per the rules for incidental damaging of armor, or are their Hardness and Hit point rules for armor elsewhere.

3.) Has anyone tried out the PDF mass combat system in a bigger size battle involving many different types of units, plus cavalry, sorcerers siege weapons etc? If so how does it run?

4.) I understand and accept that the release dates that Mongoose comes out with are not always, shall we say, set in stone. They seem to be getting much better though, however, is there any way we could get some sort of post letting us know when a book ships to the distributors so we have an idea of when to expect them at the distributors. I don't know how this could be done, but a know a few FLGS owner's who'd appreciate it.

I had a few more, but my memory's getting bad in my old age. Thanks for any assistance you can provide.

 

[lastbesthope]

4.) I understand and accept that the release dates that Mongoose comes out with are not always, shall we say, set in stone. They seem to be getting much better though, however, is there any way we could get some sort of post letting us know when a book ships to the distributors so we have an idea of when to expect them at the distributors. I don't know how this could be done, but a know a few FLGS owner's who'd appreciate it.

There's the announcements and releases, Miniature Games Release dates and Roleplaying Game Release dates sections of the boards.

There's also the Mongoospublishing yahoo list, subscribeable from the website.

LBH

 

[bushidokid]

That right there is me proving again that their are stupid questions...

 

[lastbesthope]

No such thing as a stupid question matey. We're here to help each other out. I've been lurking and posting here for a year now, so I know the ropes a little :lol:

LBH

 

[argo]

I have just a few questions, a few rules related and a few not.

1.) Power attack, is the amount of damage gained limited by base attack bonus or the negative modifier chosen, e.g. I have a character w/ Pwr Atk and +11 BAB wielding a greatsword, is the max bonus dam he can gain from Pwr Atk. +11 (limited by his BAB) or +22 (Limited by his max negative modifier)

When you PA you take a penalty to hit which may not exceed your BAB. You then apply that penalty as a bonus to damage as follows: 2x penalty for a two-handed weapon or one-handed weapon wielded in two hands; 1x penalty for a one handed weapon or unarmed strike/natural weapon; no bonus damage for light weapons (except unarmed strikes/natural weapons).

So lets say your example character with a +11 BAB has an 18 Str giving him a total attack bonus of +15. He may power attack for up to 11 (his BAB) and take a -11 penalty on attack rolls. If he is wielding a greatsword (two-handed weapon) he gets +22 bonus to damage. If he is wielding a broadsword in one hand he gets a +11 bonus to damage. If he is wielding a dagger he gets no bonus to damage but still takes the penalty.

IMC I have house ruled that light weapons get 1x damage from PA. Just because.

Fraid I can't help you with your other questions. Later.

 

[AZZA]

I have just a few questions, a few rules related and a few not.

1.) Power attack, is the amount of damage gained limited by base attack bonus or the negative modifier chosen, e.g. I have a character w/ Pwr Atk and +11 BAB wielding a greatsword, is the max bonus dam he can gain from Pwr Atk. +11 (limited by his BAB) or +22 (Limited by his max negative modifier)

When you PA you take a penalty to hit which may not exceed your BAB. You then apply that penalty as a bonus to damage as follows: 2x penalty for a two-handed weapon or one-handed weapon wielded in two hands; 1x penalty for a one handed weapon or unarmed strike/natural weapon; no bonus damage for light weapons (except unarmed strikes/natural weapons).

So lets say your example character with a +11 BAB has an 18 Str giving him a total attack bonus of +15. He may power attack for up to 11 (his BAB) and take a -11 penalty on attack rolls. If he is wielding a greatsword (two-handed weapon) he gets +22 bonus to damage. If he is wielding a broadsword in one hand he gets a +11 bonus to damage. If he is wielding a dagger he gets no bonus to damage but still takes the penalty.

IMC I have house ruled that light weapons get 1x damage from PA. Just because.

Fraid I can't help you with your other questions. Later.

This is as per the SRD but I think they changed it a little for Conan. Check out the text for Monster Slayer, last line, "The total damage bonus gained may not exceed your Base attack bonus". I believe this is supposed to apply to Power Attack as well. I asked the rulesmaster a year or so ago and they clarified it. Unfortunately I emailed them directly instead of doing it on the boards.
So the upshot is you do get double damage on your power attack for two handed weapons but the maximum penalty you can take on your attack is 1/2 your BAB.

 

[bushidokid]

Yeah, that's the feat that threw me off too, important mainly because of the game-breaking monstrosity that is Expolsive Power...

 

[argo]

Well first off I'll point out that that is not simply the rule as per the SRD but the rule as per the Power Attack feat as it was published in Conan as well.

Just remember, one thing they did not change for conan is to make it less deadly than 3.5 :wink:

As for Monster Slayer, a lot of people are confused by that one because it is poorly worded but it was clarified in the FAQ a while back. The FAQ answer can be more easily explained as this: monser slayer adds bonus damage equal to your penalty on top of the bonus damage normally dealt by Power Attack but the bonus damage from Monster Slayer may not itself exceede your BAB.

The example given in the FAQ is this: if a character has PA and MS and a +10 BAB and is wielding a two handed sword he may take a -10 penalty to hit and deal an additional +30 points of damage (20 from two-handed power attack and 10 from monster slayer).

Hope that helps.

 

[Maximo]

Bushidokid wrote

2.) The feat Crush Your Enemy, from the Shadizar Box Set, if you use the destroy armor option, is that damage doubled to 2d4 as per the rules for incidental damaging of armor, or are their Hardness and Hit point rules for armor elsewhere.

If that's a stupid question, well, then I'm stupid too

I think that, unless someone has a better idea, damage would be doubled to 2d4. That is, if you hit your foe, he doesn't lose any hit points, but his armour loses 2d4. Period.

At first, I thought that the right thing would be to consider overall damage doubled only for purpouse of causing more than 25 hit points to the character wearing the armor, what would result in 1d4 damage to the armor. With this interpretation on mind, a Broadsword strike made by a character with a Str bonus of +4 using it one-handed would cause (1d10+4)x2=2d10+8. If he faced a foe wearing a DR 12 armour, he would need to score 12+25=37 hit points to damage the armor, so he'd rather get a critical strike or make a power attack. Notice that without Crush your enemy, his chances would be even worse. This way, it would matter if you are trying to rip the armour open with a one handed broadsword or a bardiche. However, it would be a headache for most gamemasters to calculate and the game has enough dice rolls to add a new one...

Argo, thanks for your clarification on Power Attack maximum damage. I thought like Azza before reading your post, and in fact may as well house-rule going on this way, since a +30 to damage combined with Massive damage rule may end up making big monsters quite a bit less menacing. But it is good to know at last how things were intended to be.

By the way, if any of you come with some nifty house rule (a combat maneuver, for example) which allows to use a Feint+Sneak Attack without dealing so much damage (man, this makes thieves become the ultimate warriors), I would be grateful.

 

[sbarrie]

Yeah, that's the feat that threw me off too, important mainly because of the game-breaking monstrosity that is Expolsive Power...

Explosive Power needs houseruling.

In my campaign, critical hits only multiply the weapon's base damage dice. They don't multiply the bonus for strength, power attack, etc. Explosive power is still nice, but not game-breaking.

You may want to houserule that the PA bonus for Explosive Power doesn't get multiplied, or you don't get the 2-for-1 PA benefit from using a two-handed weapon when combined with Explosive Power.

 

[sbarrie]

Bushidokid wrote

2.) The feat Crush Your Enemy, from the Shadizar Box Set, if you use the destroy armor option, is that damage doubled to 2d4 as per the rules for incidental damaging of armor, or are their Hardness and Hit point rules for armor elsewhere.

If that's a stupid question, well, then I'm stupid too

I think that, unless someone has a better idea, damage would be doubled to 2d4. That is, if you hit your foe, he doesn't lose any hit points, but his armour loses 2d4. Period.

It's pretty confusing, as Crush Your Enemy says that you don't roll damage.

2d4 seems like a lot. Maybe you should only do 2d4 if you can pierce their armour, or 1d4 if you can't.

By the way, if any of you come with some nifty house rule (a combat maneuver, for example) which allows to use a Feint+Sneak Attack without dealing so much damage (man, this makes thieves become the ultimate warriors), I would be grateful.

Unimpressed
Your cold eyes can make anyone rethink their actions.
Prerequisite: Steely Gaze, Iron Will
Circumstance: An opponent attempts to Feint you, or Intimidate anyone within sight
Effect: You may immediately make an Intimidate check. If the result is higher than the normal DC for their action, then the result of your check is used as the new DC.

Confident Defense
Your calm style leaves few openings for rogues to exploit.
Prerequisite: Confident, Combat Expertise
Circumstance: You're using Combat Expertise in combat.
Effect: You may take a further -1 to your attack roll, and in exchange cancel the first sneak attack die (d8s first) from every sneak attack you suffer for the next round.

Saw it Coming
A last second twist may save your life.
Prerequisite: Awareness, Lightning Reflexes
Circumstance: You've been hit by a sneak attack
Effect: After you've been hit, but before damage is rolled, you may make a Reflex save with a DC of 5 + 5 per sneak attack die. If successful, the damage from the attack only deals 1d3 per d6 sneak attack die, or 1d4 per d8 sneak attack die. Regardless, you suffer a -2 to hit on your next initiative.

 

[argo]

By the way, if any of you come with some nifty house rule (a combat maneuver, for example) which allows to use a Feint+Sneak Attack without dealing so much damage (man, this makes thieves become the ultimate warriors), I would be grateful.

Heh, its been a while since I've heard this complaint. Memories...

So, a feinting thief is the "ultimate warrior" eh? First off remember that a thief has craptacular combat endurance; consider:
* medium DV
* DR that ranges from none to almost none (light armour, yay!)
* lousy HP
* the Fort save of a skinny 12 year old girl
And in order to activate his Improved Feint combo he must basically stand still for a full combat round (a 5' step isn't going to get him out of range of his opponent). Add that all up and what you get is that the thief had better pray that his feint-combo drops his opponent in one hit; because if it doesn't his opponent is going to turn around and open up a can of two-handed power-attacking full-round itterative attack whoop ass on him. And then your thief will be dead.

Secondly don't forget that your target gets to add his BAB as a special bonus to his Sense Motive check to avoid being feinted. If we assume for a moment that the theif and ... lets say he is fighting a soldier ... that the thief and soldier are the same level and that the theif has put max ranks into Bluff while the soldier has put nothing in Sense Motive then the soldier's BAB negates most of the thief's Bluff ranks and the contest looks like this:
soldier: 1d20 + Wis mod
thief: 1d20 + 3 + Cha mod
Now, even granting that the thief may very well have a better Cha than the soldier's Wis that still isn't very good odds when your life depends on it. Not to mention that our thief has spent max ranks plus two feats to be able to do this trick: that is not an insignificant ammount of his character resources.

Oh yeah, also don't forget that bonus skill points from a high Int may be spent on any skill at class skill ranks. No self respecting soldier should have less than a 12 Int (espically if he wants Combat Expertise ... the second best feat chain in the game) and if he drops just three measly skill points in Sense Motive then the contest becomes:
soldier: 1d20 + Wis
theif: 1d20 + Cha

Improved Feint? Don't sweat it, mostly it allows thief's to beat up on opponents of lower level and that is hardly game breaking.

Hope that helps.

 

[bushidokid]

Wihtout delving too deeply into the whole Feint debate, let me say that I don't think feint is broken, it's good, and characterful, and useful, and maybe a wee bit overpowered, but I like it and it's not broke. Explosive Power on the other hand is Broken. In the hands of a lvl 10, 18 Strength warrior type it's essentially an auto kill if it hits. Since you have good BAB and high strength, you're hitting a good majority of the time, which results in a character that can essential kill anything he comes across in one hit. Hell, you give him a Bariche, or however it's spelled, and he can gak a titan snake in one hit, let alone any of the printed demon lords. Is mongoose planning to do anything to balance this, or are we going to have to houserule it? I like the suggestion about about not multiplying the pwr attack damage, but that goes against one of the base principles of the combat system. Alternatively you could make it a once per day ability, and/or remove the power attack damage entirely, with the lower massive damage threshhold, and the upped weapon damage that's still pretty damn good.

 

[Maximo]

sbarrie:
Thanks for the maneuvers, Saw it coming is specially cool 8)

argo:
Got your points. I agree with most. However, perhaps I didn't explain myself clearly. What I do not like is the fact that a 20th lvl Thief can cause more than 10d8 with a pathetic stiletto in a fair face-to-face fight. Man, 10d8 seems like he is using a missile-launcher or a two-bladed lightsaber (and then, more).

bushidokid
I know what is a player with a Bardiche and Explosive Power, because last game I have to endure it. Usually I don't even consider about banning one feat, but this I have to admit is quite overpowering.
However, I will likely do what you suggest, that is, allowing it for a limited number of times a day (or once a mission or once for Fate Point expended, you know). You could also have a character who uses it absolutely exhausted (-4 or more to everything for an hour). Other option would be to have higher prerequisites, like say a Str of 25, so it would only be available to high level characters. Oh, and I would give it for free to King Conan, who is the only character who comes to mind as deserving this feat :wink:

Anyway, a 10th lvl thief can cause 6d8+weapon damage+Str in a fair fight with the Sneak+Feint option which would likely cause a Mass Damage check, so now I don't bother about it being quite mighty (that is, with house rules to disallow using it all the time, if not it is highly unbalancing) .

 

[Voltumna]

Argo, thanks for your clarification on Power Attack maximum damage. I thought like Azza before reading your post, and in fact may as well house-rule going on this way, since a +30 to damage combined with Massive damage rule may end up making big monsters quite a bit less menacing. But it is good to know at last how things were intended to be.

You could also increase the damage threshold for massive damage checks for certain monsters. Maybe based on the mosnter level or size.

 

[Voltumna]

So, a feinting thief is the "ultimate warrior" eh? First off remember...

And then remember that after you pull off the feint, you might still need to deal with DR. You will have to beat a DC of 10+DR. If you don't, full DR will be deducted from the damage rolled. Thieves don't have the best BAB either. If you are flanking, although you get a +1 to your attack roll, it will have to beat the opponent's full DV, and granted that the thief will be able to sneak attack as many times as he can, thieves don't have that many attacks, unless they have the experience or the feats.

If thieves have a medium DV, you could say: I wont get in the fray, I'll throw daggres, which is a pretty common behaviour for a thief I think. Ranged weapons have the disadvantage that you might put your friends at risk with your ranged attacks. And if you want to finesse, you'll need the feats, and spend a turn aiming.

And the big equalizers: dice. A thief at 7th level is at about 50-50 chance of making 20 on his damage roll, depending on strength and weapon used. This will be the case IF he is using a weapon of one of his sneak attack styles. If he finds himslef in penurious circumstances for whatever reason, he might not have any of his sneak attack style weapons, he will be rolling d6s. The same thief at 7th level will have a chance to provoque a massive attack check of 34% more or less. Of course you can always spend a fate point to deal maximum damage instead of rolling, and that is frightening with a thief of fairly good level, but if you are in a very hard fight and you don't have that many fate points, you could prefer to save the FP to get a chance to escape, or be left for dead.

Yeah, I fill very happy when I am about to roll my 5d8s (7th level thief with short sword) but even if I managed to bypass aromur, I am not falling each opponent I sneak attack. The good thing about it is that DR can go only so far, and only very rich people, or people at their service can have the best DRs.