Turning on a Ducat

[Tsanuri]

OK,

To start off my point I'm taking a quote from another thread...

Prior to RS1 we were allowing the turn on an All Stop! since as you pointed out, the rule didn't say either way. In absence of anything saying you couldn't do it, our group assumed you could. Now we know better.

Now my group done the same, and has kept our old way of play in as a House rule. This is because in the TV show I can name a dozen instances of ships on an all stop pivoring on the spot. It makes sence because otherwise how would ships dock effectively etc... etc...

Thus, what I would like to see is the All Stop action (or a new special action) to give ships the ability to remain stationary and make a single turn within your normal allowance. What do peeps think? I'll place a poll. Any ideas for modding house rules along these lines would be apriciated.

Keef.

 

[Stingray]

I see the All Stop! as the ship firing all its anterior thrusters to , well, stop. All it would take is a little less firing of one set of thrusters. Therefore, the ship's normal allowance of turns should be allowed. You could then see White stars doing that '180 deg and vape 'em' maneouvre so often seen on the show (sighs dreamily...)

 

[Tsanuri]

A member of my games group thinks I should go further with the rule and allow ships to make all there turns if they stay on 0 movement. Personally I see this as being too powerful, but how do others see this point?

Keef.

 

[Voronesh]

hrm i think going all that way isnt necessary, plus as posted above, it says you put full thrusters to stop, and then apply a bit less to turn an a credit chip. so to fully turn itd be quite ok for the ship to 2" first before making its 2nd turn.

but actually it doesnt really matter that much, but my personal preference is stated above.

plus the special action could read as, ship already counts as having moved half its speed already. keeps the whole special action KISS

 

[Bearan]

I like the idea of ships that move 0, (under the All Stop SA), get to make one turn. To give extra agile ships (such as the White Star) a bonus you could say that any ship with a dodge bonus that goes speed 0 may take all of it's normal turns.

This would allow a WS to go speed 0 and make both of it's turns. Or an Omega can spend 4 turns at speed 0 to pull a 180 without moving.

 

[Kalamadea]

plus the special action could read as, ship already counts as having moved half its speed already. keeps the whole special action KISS

I suggested just that in the thread Tsunari is refering to. It just makes sense that if a WS (or any other fast ship for that matter) can move 21" one turn and 0" the next, it should have enough thruster power to make a turn, and again this is backed up numerous times in the show.

 

[Son of Garibaldi]

If big (Battle/War) ships can turn on the spot then they can point their "big" guns easily at their smaller opponents.

To me this takes away the advantage that smaller less armoured ships have. I think the existing rules play well and give you a feel for these large vessels.

 

[Bearan]

Big ships are not going to get to turn on the dime. They are going to go speed 0 and get to make 1 45 deg turn. As most big ships only move 8 or less. They are using a special action to move 0 and turn 45 deg. Instead of moving 3 or 4" (half their move) and turning 45 deg after which they do not have to move any more and they still have a special action they could have also used. That means that it takes 4 turns of using All Stop and then turning 45 deg to pull that 180 snap turn. Does not sound all that overpowering to me. The the only ships it might be overpowering a little on would be the WS or other nimble ships with dodge if you gave them the bonus of allowing them to make both their turns.

 

[Rigeld]

Turning 360 degrees when you declare an All Stop? No.

Turning your normal turn number and degrees when you declare an All Stop? Yes.

 

[fettster]

We allow two options on All Stop! orders, move straight forward up to half move OR stay stationary and make a single turn at your normal angle (eg EA 45, WS 90 etc)

 

[Wolfgod]

Shadoes and I have been working up a Special Action just for this issue. We haven't playtested it yet, and I'm not certain that it will be popular, but this is what we have so far.

'Hard Over'

CQ check of 10 (yes, 10)

If pass:
1" forward move
Then one turn equal to Double the ship's TOTAL turns (2/45 becomes 180 degrees)

If Fail:
1 point damage


I'll attempt to explain the reasoning behind the mechanics we had in mind.

The high CQ check is to make this a difficult maneuver - basically, you're attempting something only elite crews should have a chance of pulling off. This was mainly to preserve the 'movement envelope' that you can predict an enemy vessel will be forced to fly into during it's next move. A sudden, sharp turn like this should be a pretty powerful tactical trick, so we wanted to make it something only very good crews can do often.

The 1" forward move (or perhaps 2") is to represent the time it takes to bring any large warship to a halt. Probably not critical.

The whole 'double turn' thing was to keep clumsy ships clumsy and fast ships nimble. Moreover, a ship with a single 45 turn probably isn't going to bother even trying to turn like this - it's just not worth the trouble to try to make an Omega turn sharply.

The damage for failure was added to keep people from trying it over and over, hoping to make the CQ check. This, we felt, should be a gambler's maneuver.

Even this still doesn't cover everything - such as the example of two Omegas swapping end-for-end fairly quickly in Severed Dreams (I think). The only suggestion I have for this is to make 'Hard Over' automatic *if* your warship doesn't fire at all this turn - too much power to thrusters, or some such. That would also allow a player a way out of embarassing situations like flying towards a table edge and realize that there is NO WAY you're going to be able to turn fast enough to stay on the table. Not that I've done that.

 

[The Darque One]

no i do not think a ship should be able to not move and turn because then a ship with a long range weapon can just sit where he is turn left or right and fire. the field is 4 foot by 6 foot, four narn dagkars with a range of 30 inch each can create a hell of a killzone. same with EA missile boats. the ability for a ship to hold position and turn would turn a large portion of the game into sit and fire and i don't think that would be good for the game.

 

[Wulf Corbett]

It seems to me the people who say 'no' do so for game balance rasons, while the people who say 'yes' do so for realism/simulation reasons.

Guess which side I'm on

Wulf

 

[shadoes]

personally I ride the fence on the realism/balance issue. Somethings you put in for realism do in fact upset the balance. And this rule that WolfGod and I have come up with may do that. And if it does we will not use it. But it does bear some playtesting. I wouldn't mind seeing what Matt's thoughts on this.

And some of you others who are willing playtest this and let us know the results.

 

[frobisher]

Where's the "Depends" option..?

 

[Nomad]

As I understood the game before RS1, an 'All Stop' order resulted in the ship simply loosing the initial compulsory, straight ahead, half of her move & she could then carry out her normal turns in the remaining optional half, including an initial pivot in place.

It worked for me...

 

[The Darque One]

i figured it meant all stop, as in stop moving. not stop moving then move a little to the right.

 

[madpax]

All Stop also means move a little bit. As mush as half max move. Why shouldn't it also turn, even with restrictions (crew quality check, only one turn, etc...)

Marc

 

[Wolfgod]

Being able to turn when doing an All Stop is a big deal. It doesn't affect the faster vessels so much, but if you're flying EA ships, the fact that you can't even get your measly 45 degrees until you've gone half move is critical in battles.

For example, let's say a smaller enemy - a Vorchan in this instance - moves up off my Omega's starboard bow, about 3" ahead and 2" to starboard. My Omega still gets to move, but as the rules now stand, there's no way I can get that Vorchan into my bow Boresight arc. (That's why the Vorchan flew there) I can All Stop, and still use my other F arc weapons, or I can fly past and maybe boresight with the rear heavies if I'm lucky. Allowing heavy ships to turn even with All Stop makes then much more dangerous, as small, quick ships have an even harder time staying out of the way.

I do think a provision should be in the rules to make a 'turn on the spot' but it should either be quite difficult or interfere with shooting IMHO so it doesn't change the game balance.

 

[Pauly_D]

what about when using all stop then you must move 2" before you can make a turn?