Trickster and Moon cults

[gran_orco]

I have been classifying divine spells from spellbook (I will give you the complete list agruped by cult type if you need it -pdf format), but I have a trouble:
I don not find any cult from cults 1 and 2 that matches with the trickster and moon cults. (There is no moon visible in second age, I think).
What gods do belong (concern) to these categories?

 

[soltakss]

The Blue Moon is still around in troll lands - they have an important role to play in the EWF. Dara Happa Stirs has a goddess who is Lunar in nature.

Eurmal is, of course, the big trickster. Prax has Raven and, to a lesser extent, Hyena, both of which are spirit deities.

The God Learners went to every trickster cult they could get hold of, did some monkeying about and "proved" that they were all part of some uber-trickster that they equated with Eurmal. There is even a great Temple to Trickster in Slontos that must be one of the worst places to go to in Glorantha. So, in the Second Age there is a movement to categorise and rationalise Tricksters into a form of Eurmal.

After the God Learners' fall, there is a backlash against them and Tricksters devolve into their component forms, with even more breakup of full cults, leaving Trickster Gods scattered throughout Glorantha.

All in my opinion, of course.

 

[kintire]

The God Learners went to every trickster cult they could get hold of, did some monkeying about and "proved" that they were all part of some uber-trickster that they equated with Eurmal

I've heard this before, and I've never been entirely convinced. Eurmal is the Orlanthi trickster, and the Orlanthi are the driving force behind the EWF. Why would the God Learners concentrate Tricksterness in to the Trickster of their greatest rivals?

 

[soltakss]

I've heard this before, and I've never been entirely convinced. Eurmal is the Orlanthi trickster, and the Orlanthi are the driving force behind the EWF. Why would the God Learners concentrate Tricksterness in to the Trickster of their greatest rivals?

Tricky, isn't it?

Eurmal messed up the Orlanthi as much as anyone else and at the start the Orlanthi weren't particularly against the Middle Sea Empire. The EWF was based on the original Orlanthi but soon became something else independent of and against Orlanth. Eurmal is said to have made the EWF possible by splitting someone's tongue to allow him to speak to dragons, so in a way Eurmal is part of the EWF.

The little imp who taught the God Learners about HeroQuesting might have had something to do with it.

But, the Godlearners were about classifying gods and if they classified all Tricksters as aspects of Eurmal, in the same way that all Grain Goddesses were aspects of Ernalda, then they could control Eurmal by knowing about all the Tricksters.

 

[gran_orco]

But none of these Gods appears in Cults of Glorantha...

 

[Cleombrotus]

I've heard this before, and I've never been entirely convinced. Eurmal is the Orlanthi trickster, and the Orlanthi are the driving force behind the EWF. Why would the God Learners concentrate Tricksterness in to the Trickster of their greatest rivals?

I've always gotten the impression that Trickster has always been regarded as a liability, and the positive influences He has had upon the world are incidental and unintended. From the outside, looking in at Gloranthan history as a whole, we can see Trickster as an asset, but to people living on Glorantha, Trickster just means trouble and disorder, so to me it makes perfect sense that the Godlearners would try to embody Tricksterdom in Eurmal. It wouldn't be the only thing that backfired on them in their arrogance.

But none of these Gods appears in Cults of Glorantha...

Gran Orco - I feel your exasperation in trying to acquire definitive answers about Glorantha.

 

[gran_orco]

Gran Orco - I feel your exasperation in trying to acquire definitive answers about Glorantha.

What do you mean? I do not understand this

 

[Cleombrotus]

Sorry, just that trying to understand Glorantha will drive you slightly crazy.

 

[soltakss]

But none of these Gods appears in Cults of Glorantha...

Sorry, I didn't realise you were concentrating on Cults of Glorantha.

There are no Trickster or Lunar (Moon) deities in Cults of Glorantha.

 

[kintire]

I've always gotten the impression that Trickster has always been regarded as a liability, and the positive influences He has had upon the world are incidental and unintended. From the outside, looking in at Gloranthan history as a whole, we can see Trickster as an asset, but to people living on Glorantha, Trickster just means trouble and disorder, so to me it makes perfect sense that the Godlearners would try to embody Tricksterdom in Eurmal. It wouldn't be the only thing that backfired on them in their arrogance

Hmmm... best explanation yet!

 

[gran_orco]

I've always gotten the impression that Trickster has always been regarded as a liability, and the positive influences He has had upon the world are incidental and unintended. From the outside, looking in at Gloranthan history as a whole, we can see Trickster as an asset, but to people living on Glorantha, Trickster just means trouble and disorder, so to me it makes perfect sense that the Godlearners would try to embody Tricksterdom in Eurmal. It wouldn't be the only thing that backfired on them in their arrogance

Hmmm... best explanation yet!

I have been thinking about this... If Trickster means truble and disorder, would it be logical to think that the cults related to the type or rune of the disorder had the magic of this type? For example, Te Indigo Hand showed in companion, or thieves gods.
There is another rune related to moon? I think no, but I can be wrong.

 

[soltakss]

I have been thinking about this... If Trickster means truble and disorder, would it be logical to think that the cults related to the type or rune of the disorder had the magic of this type? For example, Te Indigo Hand showed in companion, or thieves gods.

Yes, quite often Trickster Gods have magic that relates to their particular trickster powers. Third Age RQ3/HeroQuest has a lot of Trickster deities, all with different magic but similar in many ways.

Thieves are generally not Tricksters, but they can be.

Eurmal, the Prime Trickster, has many different Aspects each of which grants one or more spells related to that Aspect. So, Eurmal the Clown gets different magic to Eurmal the Thief and to Eurmal the Assassin.

There is another rune related to moon? I think no, but I can be wrong.

There is the Moon Rune, but that does not play a major part in the Second Age. It becomes very important in the Third Age.

 

[gran_orco]

Thank you very much!!!
When/Where will you publish information about Eurmal? HE is THE good

 

[Voriof]

I have been classifying divine spells from spellbook (I will give you the complete list agruped by cult type if you need it -pdf format), but I have a trouble:
I don not find any cult from cults 1 and 2 that matches with the trickster and moon cults. (There is no moon visible in second age, I think).
What gods do belong (concern) to these categories?

The trickster and moon related material was deleted from Cults. I can understand that as Trickster is really, really non-standard magic and, well, there wasn't much moon magic in the 2nd Age other than Blue Moon and some weirdo fanatics whining over the remnants of their crashed moons in Pamaltea and Dara Happa.

But there was a big section on Trickster that I sort of missed seeing in print. Greg and I had gone through ALL the Gloranthan works then exant and complied a sort-of-definitive-considering-the-source-material list of Trickster entities as seen by the idiotic God Learner who created the Temple to All Tricksters.

I'll see if I can dig up the list, at least.

Jeff

 

[Voriof]

The little imp who taught the God Learners about HeroQuesting might have had something to do with it.

When writing CoG I asked Greg about the imp found in "Atlas of Imaginary Places" and he said that it was definitely chaotic and not really a Trickster thing.

I suspect that this book (and its resident) was a snare placed for the Malkioni in the same sort of fashion that the Abiding Book was a blessing.

But, the Godlearners were about classifying gods and if they classified all Tricksters as aspects of Eurmal, in the same way that all Grain Goddesses were aspects of Ernalda, then they could control Eurmal by knowing about all the Tricksters.

I think that may have been the intent. Lots of Tricksters out there. They aren't really gods or spirits or essences or anything really except when they are. But not on Tuesdays and only with butterscotch ripple.

Jeff

 

[duncan_disorderly]

Thank you very much!!!
When/Where will you publish information about Eurmal? HE is THE good

Even more than most gods, Eurmal is not a god you <i>want</i> to worship, he's a god you <i>have</i> to worship. Being a trickster carries the death penalty, so it's generally a pretty miserable existence, and many of the Tricksters pranks backfire "No wonder they call me Trickster, I even fool myself..."

You can find some Trickster tales and myths on Mything Links

and more about trickster cults here

 

[soltakss]

Pah!

Being an Eurmali Trickster carries the death penalty, but Tricksters in other cultures are just fine.

Praxian tricksters follow Raven and Hyena and are not persecuted at all. Local trickster spirits/godlings are worshipped by people who are just annoying.

It's only the Eurmali who have a bad press, and for good reason as they pull things down just because they can.

 

[gran_orco]

Do you have Eurmal cult (house rules)? Maybe a preview?

 

[soltakss]

There is an RQ3 version of the Eurmal cult. Second Age would probably be similar but less fragmented. I'll try and dig one out and send it to you.

 

[gran_orco]

Thank you very much!