Travellers Needed - The Future of Traveller

[Sigtrygg]

I don't know that I agree that Mongoose is trapped by what was written 40 years ago. I mean, I can read all that on my own. Its all still available from FFE. One of the biggest complaints made about MgT products is how many are basically reprints. I mean, I enjoy reading the updated stuff, but I wouldn't have any trouble if they did with Fifth Frontier War what they say they are doing with 2300's Invasion, which is totally rewriting it.

Of course they are trapped by what was written 40 years ago, that's what happens when you re-write an already existing setting - at best you have an alternative universe.
My point is that Mongoose authors in the past have made some pretty glaring mistakes with established canon because they were not at the time familiar enough with what has gone before.
It's not as if they are going to have the Zhodani win, or Norris not go after the warrant.

One of the reasons GURPS Traveller was so well received was its attention to detail and prior canon. Mongoose can write a Fifth Frontier War range of supplements that takes into account existing canon and still break lots of new ground.

There are many ways a group of PCs can become involved or rather curtailed by the outbreak of war:
reservists can be called up
detached duty scouts are recalled
the PCs could be part of an active service campaign (not something I would want but many do)
the PCs could be mercenaries
the PCs could be Zhodani or other Outworld Coalition members
the PCs could be Ine Givar freedom fighters
the PCs could be a typical group trying to survive and make money while the war rages around them

We now know that there is a super secret retconned Macguffin that the Zhodani are after - perhaps a small team of Zhodani special forces can succeed where warfleets failed (although why the Zhodani went to war instead of just turning all their data over to the Imperium (who were already aware of the wave) and gaining access to Rhylanor's secret Ancient base is a true mystery.

Back in the day it was the FFW that drove me away from Traveller and towards other games, the war became the only thing of note in JTAS. It was boring.

 

[Sigtrygg]

If its poorly done, like the SW sequels, it'll be poorly received. If it's well done, it'll be well received. No matter what they do there will be some people complaining, because there will be people unhappy with a reprint of existing material and there will be people unhappy with not replicating GDW's original content. And there will be people fine either way as long as it's good.

GDW's major flaw, imho, was producing large scale content that didn't help anyone run their actual campaign of normal Travellers doing stuff. If Mongoose can write FFW material that actually means something to regular adventurers, I wouldn't care whether it followed exactly what happened the first time.

I agree with your second point but not the first, MgT should stick to the established canon but add to it.

 

[NOLATrav]

GDW's major flaw, imho, was producing large scale content that didn't help anyone run their actual campaign of normal Travellers doing stuff. If Mongoose can write FFW material that actually means something to regular adventurers, I wouldn't care whether it followed exactly what happened the first time.

This. I thought the development of the CT-era FFW was mysterious and exciting, short missives from the front leaving you wanting more. Really played into the info-at-speed-of-travel trope.

But then it was... just kind of there... no real impact or consequence... we figured something out on our own but it in hindsight it felt like a missed opportunity.

 

[Vormaerin]

I agree with your second point but not the first, MgT should stick to the established canon but add to it.

Well, you might want to send them the memo, because they are totally not doing that with their Traveller 2300 material. Anyway, we are going to just disagree on that point. Unless it's a condition of their license to either follow (or diverge) from the old material, I don't feel like they should be obliged to repeat the same stories already published.

 

[MongooseMatt]

write FFW material that actually means something to regular adventurers,

Yes, this. You will be actually playing through the FFW.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Any chance you will give Vanguard another try?

 

[Brianw]

Any chance you will give Vanguard another try?

+1*1000

 

[NOLATrav]

Any chance you will give Vanguard another try?

Minis are clearly supercool but honestly, a FFW tactical level counter-based game a la Squad Leader would also be supercool. Bonus points for PC Travellers being a unique counter, like the leader counters in SL. Boarding actions, facility assaults, grav-belted Marines and Zhodani commandos?! C'mon!

 

[Seffix]

I've not played Squad Leader since the 1970s... That would be a hoot, but making that would call for a very different skillset and manufacturing set-up. Do they make PoD counter games?

I admit, my dream for this is a boxed set with hooks into Mercenary, the Naval Campaign schema, regular street-level characters, and heck, maybe the worldbuilding book to look at how the war would change things.

 

[Vormaerin]

I've not played Squad Leader since the 1970s... That would be a hoot, but making that would call for a very different skillset and manufacturing set-up. Do they make PoD counter games?

I admit, my dream for this is a boxed set with hooks into Mercenary, the Naval Campaign schema, regular street-level characters, and heck, maybe the worldbuilding book to look at how the war would change things.

"Not Quite As Hard Times" ?

 

[Lurking Grue]

We now know that there is a super secret retconned Macguffin that the Zhodani are after - perhaps a small team of Zhodani special forces can succeed where warfleets failed (although why the Zhodani went to war instead of just turning all their data over to the Imperium (who were already aware of the wave) and gaining access to Rhylanor's secret Ancient base is a true mystery.

Wait, what? What is this 'super secret retconned Macguffin' that the Zhos are after and why? If you don't want to spoil it here, please tell me where this is laid out so I can go read it.

What is surprising about this is that in my Traveller Universe, the (still way off, but eventually upcoming) 5th Frontier War has a *very* similar premise, except the Ancient site and the Macguffin device the Zhos are after (and consider threatening enough to go to war for) is in Regina instead of Rhylanor. Is this what the (retconned?) official line is, too? If so, I inadvertently reached the same plot line somehow. Hmm, or was this (more or less) the same plot line way back in CT times as well and I have just forgotten it?

 

[Farqs]

This is one of my favourite threads.

Whilst it becomes increasingly difficult to come up with something new there are plenty of new spins and there is plenty of material going back 40+ years (oh my) to refer to. so...

I do like the Sector Guides; sure there are some worlds that don't get covered but here is a wealth of material to pick and choose. Looking back at the old material two I did like were Tarsus and Beltstrike. Individual systems fleshed out in some detail with maybe a couple of rule options thrown in (asteroid mining for example). So... without making life difficult canon-wise I would love to see similar - Regina, Glisten or (fun) Vincennes or let's go over the border - The 40th Squadron, Trexalon or Tlaiowaha. The system description would of course include adventures and plots but it could incorporate or give rise to additional "rules" e.g. how do you run a TL 16 campaign? How does Vargr society "work" in detail? How is a Subsector Government structured? Down to the more prosaic rustling cattle, climbing mountains.

Drill down a bit and you could have an entire book on a space station (and I'm sure that has been mentioned before - one or two (each being very different) each working up from E to A or the whole gamut of station systems in say Mora.

One spin could be to provide a series of Lonely Planet (not) guides - a tourist rather than traveller guide to a planet/subsector - potted history, sites of (tacky maybe) interest, languages, hotels, local customs. And yes it has been done but if done well.

Slightly different tack - a corporate book - the Oberlindes Line; perhaps Ling-Standard products in the Spinward Marches or McLellan Factors. Lots of plot hooks and incidental material on the worlds they have bases on.

 

[Shardan13]

From the Traveller Release Schedule 2023 thread so that ideas for new books are in one place. TrippyHippy ideas for a generic source book for running lab ships and a Mutants sourcebook.

 

[Sigtrygg]

Remake Research Station Gamma, include rules for other research station, the scientific research process, potential exotic tech breakthroughs, lab ships etc.

With regards to exotic tech - the Imperium should be researching stuff in the TL16-18 range so scour T4, T5, MegaTraveller for inspiration, and also consider accidental discoveries (they are researching real magic after all)

 

[Seffix]

Remake Research Station Gamma, include rules for other research station, the scientific research process, potential exotic tech breakthroughs, lab ships etc.

With regards to exotic tech - the Imperium should be researching stuff in the TL16-18 range so scour T4, T5, MegaTraveller for inspiration, and also consider accidental discoveries (they are researching real magic after all)

Lab ships, research stations, research procedures... almost every major race is doing some sort of ongoing work on technological advancement (maybe not Droyne). How do they manage and execute this research? How would travellers perform such work, with agency and excitement? More likely, how and why would travellers appropriate, fall afoul of, work against, and/or aid such research?

Do K'kree have lab ships? Do Vargr have research stations? Do Zhodani ever resort to internal industrial espionage? I imagine the answers are "yes, and..." or "yes, but..." and would love to discover the contents of those ellipses.

 

[Alexander_B]

Nice thread, so here are my two cents, random ideas really, so take them with a (big) grain of salt.

Library data volume 1 & 2: big books full of fluff and illustrations (a bit like the Guide to Glorantha, I pick this one as an example as the audiences for both games kickstarter seem to be in the same ballpark, The GtG had 1276 contributors, most Traveller's Kickstarters have roughly the same number of contributors, in the 900-1220 range). Considering the amount of work and art needed I don't see how it could be done outside of a Kickstarter. Library datas are also great book for players, they're not GM-only books.

More sector guides? I liked the fact that in Classic Traveller, some sector were left for other publishers/GMs to develop as they wanted. I really like those that I have (Behind the Claw, Solomani Front, Glorious Empire) but there's always the pitfall of "the more you make, the more the setting becomes intimidating for newcomers". So, AFAIC I don't "need" new ones, I already have enough to last me two lifetimes (especially once I add The Third Imperium to my shelves). I also know that I will end up buying any new one that comes out

New settings! Pioneer really grabbed my attention and I would also like to see something a bit more in the space-opera/high adventure style (a bit of a simplified chargen focused on life events, more forgiving Hit Points mechanics instead of the death spiral, add a wound threshold maybe...Sorry I'm rambling). More importantly, should they be self-contained? Does having to buy the Traveller corebook to try a new setting an obstacle for new GM/players? I don't know. If you consider Traveller as a "universal-sci-fi" rulebook that makes sense... But is that the way the game is perceived? I don't know.

Pricing comes to play as well, having to shell out 86.95 euros for 2300AD and learning that it's not a stand-alone game may rub some people the wrong way. Anyway I hope Pioneer will be a stand alone game as I think (maybe wrongly, I don't have access to any data that can prove my point) it will be more welcoming to new customers.

New adventures and campaigns? Yes, more of them! I like the way you have a mixture of both new and "old" adventures to keep everyone happy. You're doing a great work with this, kudos to everyone involved! What can we add to this? Well, if presenting Traveller as a "universal-sci-fi" game is important, maybe having a small line of one-shot adventures focusing on different science-fiction genres could be the way to go. I really liked (and GMed) Cowboys vs Xenomorphs, but seeing a line of independent adventures going for sci-fi subgenres (space-opera, cyberpunk, horror, apocalypse, dystopias, crime...) would be great and would allow to test interest for a particular setting (and test specific genre rules as well). [EDIT: to limit costs, going for a PDF line first, then regroup them in a printed anthology if sales justify it?]

Hope that makes sense and thanks for the books I already have and enjoy!

 

[Vormaerin]

Pricing comes to play as well, having to shell out 86.95 euros for 2300AD and learning that it's not a stand-alone game may rub some people the wrong way. Anyway I hope Pioneer will be a stand alone game as I think (maybe wrongly, I don't have access to any data that can prove my point) it will be more welcoming to new customers.

This is a distraction from the actual point of the thread, but this is a perennial point of contention. Boils down to a lot of folks in the hobby seem to think it's a privilege for authors and artists to make RPG books, not something they should make livable wages doing. I think it has died down, but it used to be that every single Mongoose book on DTRPG had one or more complaints about pricing. Every time any RPG author talks about industry rates in public, they get dogpiled on by commentariat about how being able to put food on their table was just code for pricing games only for elites.


I'm sure that's not where you are coming from, but I literally just ducked one of these stupid conversations last night so was a bit of a hot button for me. Sorry Anyway, as much as I'd like everything to be cheap, I'd rather it was done well and the people who make good things make enough money to continue to make good things.

 

[Alexander_B]

I'm sure that's not where you are coming from, but I literally just ducked one of these stupid conversations last night so was a bit of a hot button for me. Sorry Anyway, as much as I'd like everything to be cheap, I'd rather it was done well and the people who make good things make enough money to continue to make good things.

Hi! Being an indie rpg publisher myself, I perfectly understand the need to set prices that allow your business to stay afloat. My point was about new settings for Traveller: should they be self-contained or always require the possession of the Corebook? There are arguments for both. I lean toward the former because the latter simply means a higher cost overall, which can be (but not always) a barrier to entry. This isn't a judgement about "good" or "bad" pricing but a question about what is the best way to get new customers to buy in. Hope that cleared things up

 

[Vormaerin]

If the setting has its own chargen tables, I think the Explorer's Edition of the rules would be enough to run it. So if the new players were aware of that version of the rules, might mitigate the issue entirely.

Beyond that, in my opinion as a consumer, it depends a lot on how its marketed. If it says: "Pioneer, a Setting for the Traveller RPG" I wouldn't want to pay for the rules to be duplicated in the Pioneer book. If it says: "Pioneer, a Game of crashing your spaceship into new worlds and seeing what happens next" (or whatever ), then I'd be expecting at least a playable basic version of the rules in it.

But a lot would depend on how much it costs to add the rules to the game, both in terms of $ and setting material cut for space concerns.

 

[Seffix]

Library data volume 1 & 2: big books full of fluff and illustrations (a bit like the Guide to Glorantha, I pick this one as an example as the audiences for both games kickstarter seem to be in the same ballpark, The GtG had 1276 contributors, most Traveller's Kickstarters have roughly the same number of contributors, in the 900-1220 range). Considering the amount of work and art needed I don't see how it could be done outside of a Kickstarter. Library datas are also great book for players, they're not GM-only books.

More sector guides? I liked the fact that in Classic Traveller, some sector were left for other publishers/GMs to develop as they wanted. I really like those that I have (Behind the Claw, Solomani Front, Glorious Empire) but there's always the pitfall of "the more you make, the more the setting becomes intimidating for newcomers". So, AFAIC I don't "need" new ones, I already have enough to last me two lifetimes (especially once I add The Third Imperium to my shelves). I also know that I will end up buying any new one that comes out

My tuppence:

Strongly second a nice Library Data publication, something that can be handed out to players with the understanding that it is "common knowledge," and its accuracy and currency are not guaranteed. That said, I'd also like to see a TLR version of Library Data, like the Traveller Explorer's Edition that can be slipped over to new players without making their eyes glaze over.

As for sector guides, I love 'em; read 'em recreationally. And they have plenty of room for customization and the insertion of the-planet-the-GM-needs-for-this-adventure. That said, I think every supra-polity could stand to have at least one sector set aside for the GM to craft their large-scale tales.