Travellers Needed! High Guard Updates

[Terry Mixon]

I mean just put it in singularity on release,,, problem solved

That would work, too. Good idea. Maybe @MongooseChris can swing that. It is most relevant there, do those that adopt it.

 

[Endie]

This thread is to suggest ideas. That isn’t explicitly what was originally asked for, but it is what it has grown to. That’s what I did. If they don’t use my idea, that’s fine and I’ll make up my own rule. It doesn’t make giving the suggestion a waste of time. We should all suggest what we want because they won’t know if we don’t. There is no need to be dismissive of the suggestions because they were made (not you).

Read it again: it's not dismissive (the original version was scathing: what I eventually posted was carefully couched in neutral and factual language). People carefully engaging with you and saying "look at it like this and it might appear obvious..."

The fact that yes, if you can't argue with what it contains then it will lead to the idea being dismissed is unavoidable. But it wasn't dismissive in the way that you, for instance, posting that MarcusIII's entirely sensible and mainstream opinion was dismissed by you as him "marching to the beat of his own drum."

As regards the fact that the thread repeatedly devolves into theorycrafting and amateur game design propositions: yes, I agree, and you can see the effects in the Mongoose employee posting that he hasn't bothered to read it all: it has ceased to be useful in those terms.

 

[Terry Mixon]

Read it again: it's not dismissive (the original version was scathing: what I eventually posted was carefully couched in neutral and factual language). People carefully engaging with you and saying "look at it like this and it might appear obvious..."

The fact that yes, if you can't argue with what it contains then it will lead to the idea being dismissed is unavoidable. But it wasn't dismissive in the way that you, for instance, posting that MarcusIII's entirely sensible and mainstream opinion was dismissed by you as him "marching to the beat of his own drum."

As regards the fact that the thread repeatedly devolves into theorycrafting and amateur game design propositions: yes, I agree, and you can see the effects in the Mongoose employee posting that he hasn't bothered to read it all: it has ceased to be useful in those terms.

I said (not you) to make sure you knew I wasn’t referring to you. As to them not reading it, I believe that they are, or will eventually do so. They just aren’t responding to the suggestions. They will undoubtedly go through and select what they want to use and discard the rest. That’s their prerogative and I’m fine with that.

As for me dismissing his comment that the rule obviously wasn’t for him, I merely pointed out that it didn’t need to be. There are plenty of rules that I ignore, yet when someone suggests a rule that doesn’t apply to me, I don’t feel the need to declare I would never use it. That’s a bit self-centered. I don’t see my response as out of line. Others may see it differently. That’s their call.

 

[Endie]

I said (not you) to make sure you knew I wasn’t referring to you. As to them not reading it, I believe that they are, or will eventually do so. They just aren’t responding to the suggestions. They will undoubtedly go through and select what they want to use and discard the rest. That’s their prerogative and I’m fine with that.

As for me dismissing his comment that the rule obviously wasn’t for him, I merely pointed out that it didn’t need to be. There are plenty of rules that I ignore, yet when someone suggests a rule that doesn’t apply to me, I don’t feel the need to declare I would never use it. That’s a bit self-centered. I don’t see my response as out of line. Others may see it differently. That’s their call.

If Mongoose were to say that they were going to re-introduce Virus, or one of the other setting wreckers, then I would be vocal in voicing my disapproval. Hop Drives (as Singularity explicitly makes very clear in two different notes to the GM, would totally rewrite the setting. That's exactly where people should let Mongoose know the risks that they would take. Fortunately, and unsurprisingly, Matt was quick to reassure us that nope, hop drives won't be something they use more widely.

Personally, I remain nervous that the Zhodani Expeditions book might use the other hilariously awful setting wrecker from that dark era of Traveller writing: the Empress Wave. It's way too late for me saying so to have any influence on a book that's already printed, and this is the first time I've mentioned it. But it if does show up, I'll chime in to express my disappointment and my hope that, in the words of Hume, it falls "dead-born from the press, without reaching such distinction, as even to excite a murmur among the zealots."

Also apologies: I missed the "not you" element. I admit that did rather take away the point of much of my post...

 

[Terry Mixon]

If Mongoose were to say that they were going to re-introduce Virus, or one of the other setting wreckers, then I would be vocal in voicing my disapproval. Hop Drives (as Singularity explicitly makes very clear in two different notes to the GM, would totally rewrite the setting. That's exactly where people should let Mongoose know the risks that they would take. Fortunately, and unsurprisingly, Matt was quick to reassure us that nope, hop drives won't be something they use more widely.

Personally, I remain nervous that the Zhodani Expeditions book might use the other hilariously awful setting wrecker from that dark era of Traveller writing: the Empress Wave. It's way too late for me saying so to have any influence on a book that's already printed, and this is the first time I've mentioned it. But it if does show up, I'll chime in to express my disappointment and my hope that, in the words of Hume, it falls "dead-born from the press, without reaching such distinction, as even to excite a murmur among the zealots."

Also apologies: I missed the "not you" element. I admit that did rather take away the point of much of my post...

My personal bet is they do have the Empress Wave, but it is watered down. Not setting destroying but perhaps setting inconveniencing.

 

[Galadrion]

If Mongoose were to say that they were going to re-introduce Virus, or one of the other setting wreckers, then I would be vocal in voicing my disapproval.

Perhaps you have not yet read the so-far released files of Singularity, but if you've got access, I would direct your attention to the various details of "Wild Strain".

 

[Endie]

Perhaps you have not yet read the so-far released files of Singularity, but if you've got access, I would direct your attention to the various details of "Wild Strain".

Yes, I've read it, and I am very glad that it is just a gimmick of the Singularity adventure and timeline that will, I am confident, not get used anywhere else, just like the hop drive. It's also not like TNE's abortive "canon" in that it can (and presumably will be, during the adventure) be defeated by the players, and nipped in the bud.

I love Chris's writing and think that Singularity is great, but he has a neophile's* tendency to insert bits of Traveller that are not widely loved into his writing. In his Glorious Empire book he spends pages trying to revive the Civil War timeline: a weird discursion for a book that is not about the Imperium in any way, nor is it about a state which was directly involved in the Aslan invasion that followed.

From memory, he is also the only writer to put energy shields on a ship in Charted Space: again, a one-off that has been ignored in all other Mongoose publications (at least the large number I possess!). I don't object - I use them myself, for the very specific reason that one of my groups is so large they struggle for tasks in ship combat - but their effect is sweeping.

Now he has introduced hop drives (for very good pacing reasons), proto-Virus and a bunch of stuff that Marc ill-advisedly retconned into his setting in Agent of the Imperium. I think that all of them make for great story decisions. In the context of the very specific alternate universe painted by Singularity, they're amazing in the challenges they raise.

But they are quarantined: if you play Singularity, then they exist. If you don't then obviously you can introduce them to your own Traveller Universe (although most people will do so thoughtlessly, and ignore the vast implications** right up until they get one of those players who does think about the implications and begins to break their world!). But post-Singularity you are not playing Traveller in the same setting as has emerged since the late 70s: an attraction for some but an issue for others.

*Maybe not neophilia given that most of these are decades old, but it seems more like neophilia and a desire for what-iffery than contrarianism.
**Vast implications that Chris is very careful to point out, not least because of the potential for further, very wild, adventures that they present.

 

[agentwigggles]

As an editor, it should be ex out too. It doesnt have anything to do with singularity as there no public let alone commercial tramp freights with hop drives.

And Comfort level is already in for spaceships. Its just not called comfort points. Thats what the DM+ for steward levels and stateroom quality is for.

The comfort level for vehicles, is meant to help represents really cramped, over stuffed ships you'll be spending months in. Like a sailing ship, or a nuclear submarine or even a supercar. Then to contrast this against luxury limo or superyacht.

 

[Terry Mixon]

As an editor, it should be ex out too. It doesnt have anything to do with singularity as there no public let alone commercial tramp freights with hop drives.

And Comfort level is already in for spaceships. Its just not called comfort points. Thats what the DM+ for steward levels and stateroom quality is for.

The comfort level for vehicles, is meant to help represents really cramped, over stuffed ships you'll be spending months in. Like a sailing ship, or a nuclear submarine or even a supercar. Then to contrast this against luxury limo or superyacht.

I don't know if that will end up being the case. Having seen the rules for comfort points and their effects for vehicles already, I think they would scale up well to make a difference, even for the already existing subdivisions of staterooms. They have an effect even in large vehicles with plenty of space already, so they would fit right in for ships.

Add in the ability of quality in Cluster Truck to provide a positive (or negative) DM for passenger rolls, that will have an effect as well. It'll eventually have to all be explained, and I'm hoping that it happens in this High Guard update, but I won't be shocked if it doesn't.

 

[hopsnbaer]

I think there is a good chance the Cluster Truck mechanics and High Guard are going to remain separate entities.

 

[Terry Mixon]

I think there is a good chance the Cluster Truck mechanics and High Guard are going to remain separate entities.

Probably, but it implies that the use of quality has an effect beyond what is already spelled out, at least. That means that comfort points could be used to represent truly luxurious staterooms and amenities, and thus get more of a positive DM.

 

[Condottiere]

Comfort is quantifiable.

Automation, on call service, luxurious and comfortable surroundings and furnishings.

How much that actually translates into cost, might be disputable.

 

[agentwigggles]

Cluster Truck rules while of course can be applied anywhere. They were purpose made for the region of space where ships are lego'ed together from scrap yards. Where getting good quality or even normal quality is aberrant. It makes it utility for for a lot of Chartered Space, kinda just busy work. Its details for the sake of details, as most to a high degree would all have normal quality components.

 

[Terry Mixon]

With the impending advent of Hop 1 drives (from the Singularity Campaign) the freight and passenger tables (including the new luxury passengers) need to be extended to 1-10 parsecs. The future is now, as they say, and for those wanting to do post Singularity play, this is needed.

Here is a suggestion. I changed the highlighted cell from 50,000 to 30,000 because it was otherwise wildly out of step with the other cost increments.

View attachment 7386

Thinking about the comments on my proposed freight table expansion, I came up with an alternative. This one scraps the J6 line and has the same rates as for 1-5 spread out in increments of 2 parsecs. Maybe that is less intrusive and also allows the more advanced drive to make inroads into existing trade.

 

[hopsnbaer]

Cluster Truck rules while of course can be applied anywhere. They were purpose made for the region of space where ships are lego'ed together from scrap yards. Where getting good quality or even normal quality is aberrant. It makes it utility for for a lot of Chartered Space, kinda just busy work. Its details for the sake of details, as most to a high degree would all have normal quality components.

I agree with you, although I really like the thought from Cluster Truck. It fits the trope of the falling apart ship that needs parts and loving care.

 

[Terry Mixon]

Cluster Truck rules while of course can be applied anywhere. They were purpose made for the region of space where ships are lego'ed together from scrap yards. Where getting good quality or even normal quality is aberrant. It makes it utility for for a lot of Chartered Space, kinda just busy work. Its details for the sake of details, as most to a high degree would all have normal quality components.

The reason I used the example was because it does what I was suggesting comfort points would do, though in a more limited form. It is proof the system can allow the vehicle use of comfort points to be included in ships as well. Personally, I think they should be.