Traveller - Pre-Interstellar Wars, Mongoose Style

[Nathan Brazil]

OK, I'm working on a project to create a campaign data for Terra before First Contact with the Vilani.
First thing, I am trying to create ship designs for the ESA colony ships Europa, Voyajeur, C-Jammer and Marinus van der Lubbe with Mongoose High Guard design rules. From canon in the GURPS Interstellar Wars, Reft Sector and the old CT TCS book, I have some initial historical constraints:

"The most ambitious such effort was launched in 2050 by the European Space Agency, in cooperation with the French O'Neil colony and Beltmetallfabrikant,AG. Three large asteroids were hollowed out and fitted with reaction drives." (TCS p.40)

"2050 ESA colony missions leave Earth" (Reft Sector p.29)

"In 2052, it was an UNSCA lab on Luna which produced the first practical “grav modules,” offering Terrans control of gravity for the first time. A UNSCA research station on Ceres also produced the first working reactionless thrusters in 2064." (IW p,22)

"The first of these ships, the Europa, was sent to the nearby Alpha Centauri system, where a Garden world (p. 96) was already known to exist." (IW p.22).

"100,000 colonists were carried aboard each ship, of which 750 or so were ‘awake’ at any given time." (Reft Sector p.23)

 

[Nathan Brazil]

So I have
Planetoids ships
TL 8 design
Reaction Drives
No artificial gravity plates
100,000 Suspended Animation
Accomodations for 750 "live" Crew

Before I start factoring TL:
The absolute smallest ship would be planetoids starting at around 36000 dTon (this includes planetoid waste space, 3 command modules, 25000 Emergency Low Berths=100,000 occupants, 375 doubled staterooms=750 awake). This does not take drives or how it could survive for 2000 years and so on.
If I upgrade to "standard accomodations" I am looking at 133000 dTons (this includes planetoid waste space, 4 command modules, 100000 Low Berths=100,000 occupants, 750 staterooms=750 awake). Again, this does not take drives, sensors, etc. or how it could survive for 2000 years and so on.

 

[GamingGlen]

2000 years? 200 is even too long.

Wouldn't an ion drive be the best drive to use?

I think the launching of a generation ship during a time of high discovery is preposterous. Who knows what technologies will come about in the next 10-50 years. Or, it's a scam if the colonists paid, or, a way for the state to get rid of undesirables. It's one very good prison as there is no escape. After reading about Supermax prison costs, a hollowed-out asteroid is probably cheap by comparison (after space flight becomes cheap as written in IW). Perhaps after a 100 years of proving that FTL is not possible THEN launch generation ships.

 

[Nathan Brazil]

That is not the point of this topic. All of your points are may be valid as far as the real world goes. However this is not the real world, this is the Original Traveller Universe I am talking about. There is lots of silliness in it from a real world perspective. My biggest one has always been the interfertility of the various "human races" when the gene stock Grandfather pulled was from the species 300000 years ago and then subject to major permanent changes to environmental conditions. So meh, I go with the flow.

My goal is to construct campaign data pre-First Contact using as much of the Mongoose Traveller ruleset as possible AND keeping to canon. I won't be using Ion drives as
a.the are not defined in the Mongoose Traveller rules
b.the ships are clearly do not have them which is why I quoted canon

On survivability for two thousand years, I found two avenues of help.
1.Fission Power Plants - The Core Rules and High Guard clearly define Fission Plants themselves and yes clarification to plant size, but only the Core Rules discuss Fission Fuel. The Core rules show in the charts that an equal amount of dTon of Fusion Fuel which powers a Fusion plant for 2 weeks powers a Fission Plant for 1 year (Core Rules p. 107 and p.109)
2.Solar panels (High Guard p. 42) - Slap those puppies on a ship and it's endurance increases 4-fold as long as there is no major maneuvering and such. So My Fission Power Plants now have an endurance of 4 years per equivelent fuel, not simply 1 year.

 

[F33D]

So I have
Planetoids ships
TL 8 design
Reaction Drives
No artificial gravity plates
100,000 Suspended Animation

Low or cryo berths are ~TL 10.

 

[Nathan Brazil]

Low or cryo berths are ~TL 10.

Thanks, that means they are available. I have been working on this assumption:
"Most technologies are developed one or more technology levels before they become common, and are refined for one or more technology levels after before they are abandoned in favour of the next step in design. For example, the standard Pulse laser is developed at TL7. Primitive prototypes become available at TL6, while the design is refined until TL8 or even later, at which time weapons research moves to particle weapons." (High Guard p. 52)

 

[Nathan Brazil]

In addition, Supplement 4 - Central Supply Catalog has rules on developing items common certain Tech Levels at lower ones (CSC p.12). I will design the lower TL berths as larger and more expensive. Thanks for reminding me F33D about TL.

The only real issue that I have to butterfly away is the reaction drives.
It's around 160 - 170 parsecs from Terra to New Home (I counted squares/hexes from Terra to New Home by hand using Atlas of the Imperium, but it was late and may have zig-zagged going from page to page). They would have to be traveling at average speed of around .22C to cross the distance in 2462 years (Launch 2050 - Arrive at New Home 4512 Reft Sector p.29). Yes and that does not take into account the 10-20+ years each of acceleration and deceleration.

"The mission went into the Arrival Phase as the ships approached the promising word, which was dubbed New Home. Increasing numbers of frozen colonists were awakened and began preparations for landing. A deliberate programme of population expansion was begun in those last years; the slow speed of sublight travel ensured that children born at the start of the Arrival Phase would set foot on their new world as adolescents." (Reft Sector p.24)

 

[F33D]

Low or cryo berths are ~TL 10.

Thanks, that means they are available.

Probably not in any quantity nor, quality. Certainly not at the scale you list.

Examples: TL 4 Nuc subs. TL 2 powered aircraft, etc...

 

[Nathan Brazil]

F33D in that you are absolutely right. Again that is the real world, not the OTU. It would mean a production run of ~400,000 units (for all the ships). That is not simply prototypes but perhaps an introduced technology at TL 8 which is refined to a mature form at TL 10.

As a speculation, emergency low and cyroberth were introduced at TL 8, and made "safe" by TL10. Oh, and I am aware the dangers of both in previous versions of the game by the mature TL 10 berths. Heavens help my poor colonists...

 

[JBRocky]

Do remember a WOrlds TL can vary from area to area. You have Earth be a TL 9 Society but still have not discovered J1 and at the same time have advanced Medical Tech at say TL10. All depends on what you like and since its you game why not change a few things around some.

 

[Nathan Brazil]

Yes, thanks JBRocky. I am going thru the information in Interstellar Wars right now. I find the Vilani having Medicine Tech of only GURPS TL 7 amusing, but such was the nature of the Ziru Sirka. GURPS TL 7 is only around MgT TL 5-6. I have constructed the chart below from the descriptive info from each game's TL. For example GURPS 1 is Bronze Age and GURPS 2 is Iron Age. These fall into Traveller 1 which is Bronze Age AND Iron Age, and so on:
GURPS Traveller Jump
0 0
1-2 1
3-4 2
5 3
6 4
7 5-6
8 7-8
9 9-A 1
10 B 2
11 C 3

 

[Nathan Brazil]

I have experienced segmented TL differences before. DGP's World Builder's Handbook had segmentation, so I am familiar with that already. I am also working on UNP's on the nations of Earth from 2012 Wikipedia data using a modified 2300AD UNP template to extrapolate future 2050 NASA, ESA, China and UNSCA capabilities. The next few decades are a bit busy for Terra.

 

[Mithras]

Nathan, you could really do with my setting book Orbital that defines Earth and the planets and moons of the solar system in a TL 9 context. Can't help you with the asteroid generation ship though!!

Orbital is around 225 pages and comes out 1 January as PDF and POD.

 

[Nathan Brazil]

Nathan, you could really do with my setting book Orbital that defines Earth and the planets and moons of the solar system in a TL 9 context. Can't help you with the asteroid generation ship though!!

Orbital is around 225 pages and comes out 1 January as PDF and POD.

Ooh, I hope its number crunchy and text flavory! I will buy it when I have the spare cash. Who am I kidding, I buy almost every Traveller book. Still, thanks Mithras. I'll keep it in mind for revisions once I get it. Working on StarLeaper One (the First Contact ship) right now.

 

[Mithras]

In the 'what can I do with this book?' section, we do discuss using it wholesale for a pre-StarLeaper game, or a pre-Stutterwarp game for 2300AD. I'll put up a link when the book comes out in January...

In fact there are two products associated with Orbital already out, and one of them is free.

Vacc Suit is the game's section on pressure suits at TL 7, 8 and 9 reformatted as a stand-alone PDF for Traveller and is free, please take a look!

http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/107458/Vacc-Suit

Outpost Mars is a Traveller setting book focussing on scientific missions on Mars in 2040 (TL8), 60 years earlier within the same Orbital timeline:

http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/103215/Outpost-Mars

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

That is not the point of this topic. All of your points are may be valid as far as the real world goes. However this is not the real world, this is the Original Traveller Universe I am talking about. There is lots of silliness in it from a real world perspective. My biggest one has always been the interfertility of the various "human races" when the gene stock Grandfather pulled was from the species 300000 years ago and then subject to major permanent changes to environmental conditions. So meh, I go with the flow.

You have a healthy attitude when it comes to a sci-fi game setting. It's a rare thing.

 

[Nathan Brazil]

Thanks. I look at most campaign settings like good improvisational theater. Once something is introduced to the audience, you can't take it away and said it never happened. Unless of course you can explain it away. In a good way.
My other rule of thumb, if the owner says it's canon, it's canon. It's his story, vision, whathave you.
So for me, IW, Milleu 0, Gateway, OTU, Rebellion, Hard Times, Virus and TNE, and 1248. It all happened. Will happen? Time travel is confusing sometimes.

Oh, and Martin J. Dougherty wherever you are. Thanks for the Ancient's war machine reawakening during the Battle over Vland in 1219. The was so, so, over the top and still tickles me pink!

 

[Mithras]

Thanks. I look at most campaign settings like good improvisational theater. Once something is introduced to the audience, you can't take it away and said it never happened.

That's also the only way to run historical games as far as I'm concerned, once the dice start rolling its now your history, and anything can happen, OTU or non-OTU, historical or fantasy ...

 

[Nathan Brazil]

I have another challenge. I am creating Universal Nation Profiles for countries/regions in 2012. currently to use for projecting into the future.
Would anyone have suggestions for source materials to make a determination of Law Level and Tech Level.

I came across a website that indexed legality of firearms for the US States, and then for 190+ nations or areas (with links to their references as well!). They also indexed legality of narcotics in the same areas.

I have looked into the idea of using the parts of something called a World Governance Index which will help to determine Law Levels concerning Information and Travellers.

For Tech Level, yes the planet as a whole is around TL7 or TL8. Would there be any statistical data one can use? I though about GDP and GNP but that is economics and not "Tech Level".

 

[locarno24]

For Tech Level, yes the planet as a whole is around TL7 or TL8. Would there be any statistical data one can use? I though about GDP and GNP but that is economics and not "Tech Level".

Depends on how you define it!

Since the way that matters to most traveller players is "can I buy X", I'd guess you need to pick some 'signpost' items for TL7 and TL8 and define a regions average TL in that field by ease of access to them...