Traveller Developer's Pack

[AKAramis]

The OGL and the TLL are seperate and distinct licenses with their own terms and conditions, which should not be confused. They are also incompatible with each other. You supplement can be OGL or TLL compliant, but not both.

Simon Hibbs

Wrong. Every TLL compliant product MUST ALSO BE OGL Compliant.

Not every OGL product will be TLL compliant.

TLL is a subset of OGL.

 

[Vile]

Every TLL compliant product MUST ALSO BE OGL Compliant.

Not every OGL product will be TLL compliant.

TLL is a subset of OGL.

That is how I understood it. I don't think the TLL allows you to use any terms from the TML or other books unless those terms are in the SRD. Am I wrong?

Could someone from Mongoose give an official answer, please?

 

[MongooseMatt]

That is how I understood it. I don't think the TLL allows you to use any terms from the TML or other books unless those terms are in the SRD. Am I wrong?

Could someone from Mongoose give an official answer, please?

You are right!

 

[Vile]

Although I hesitate to attribute any equine qualities to your good self, thanks for the straight answer, Matt.

Now that I know what's what, I can get back to writing.

 

[simonh]

You are right!

I'd assumed the 'no product identity' clause in the OGL would preclude use of the Traveller name and logo, but I suppose the TLL licenses use of those seperately. Thanks for the clarification, and my appologies for muddying things.

Simon Hibbs

 

[Jeff Hopper]

Has there been any word on whether or not 3PP can use the trade codes for worlds?

 

[Vile]

I notice that the rules for alternate FTL Drives and powerplants that are in the corebook aren't included in the SRD - neither are the variant worldgen rules (Space Opera and Hard Science).

We are happy to consider those for inclusion in the SRD.

How's that consideration going, Matt? :wink:

I really hope that you do decide to include these options (as well as High Guard and Scouts in future), as it will open the field quite a bit further than the current system - which is basically restricted to OTU-style technology.

Has there been any word on whether or not 3PP can use the trade codes for worlds?

It looks like you can. The full names for the trade codes are in the SRD:

Homeworld: Growing up on your homeworld gave you skills that depend on the planet’s nature. You can select any skill that matches your homeworld’s planetary description and trade codes. If you came from a planet already established, then consult those sources for the planet’s description.

Agricultural: 		Animals 0
Asteroid: 		    Zero-G 0
Desert: 			   Survival 0
Fluid Oceans: 		Seafarer 0
Garden: 			   Animals 0
High Technology: 	Computers 0
High Population:    Streetwise 0
Ice-Capped: 		  Vacc Suit 0
Industrial: 		  Trade 0
Low Technology: 	 Survival 0
Poor: 			     Animals 0
Rich: 			     Carouse 0
Water World: 		 Seafarer 0
Vacuum: 		      Vacc Suit 0

 

[simonh]

I'm writing up a more detailed version of the Starfall setting I posted about recently. For that, I'm specifying a new code to add to world descriptions called 'Sustainability' indicating how likely it is that the world in question will be able to sustain or advance it's current population and technology level without outside help.

Now I think it's clear I can't redefine any of the existing world attributes which is sensible, but I don't think there's anything to stop me changing the way they are generated (I probably don't need to, but may throw in some optional modifications) or adding new ones.

One potential issue though is that I want to comment on the use of the Space Opera or Hard SF options for Starfall. As I understand it, because they're not in the SRD I can't even say something like "Referees may want to consider using the Hard SF or Space Opera options for world generation in their Starfall campaign".

I very much doubt that's Mongoose's intention, but it seems like that's the letter of the law.

Simon Hibbs

 

[Jeff Hopper]

Has there been any word on whether or not 3PP can use the trade codes for worlds?

It looks like you can. The full names for the trade codes are in the SRD:

Homeworld: Growing up on your homeworld gave you skills that depend on the planet’s nature. You can select any skill that matches your homeworld’s planetary description and trade codes. If you came from a planet already established, then consult those sources for the planet’s description.

Agricultural: 		Animals 0
Asteroid: 		    Zero-G 0
Desert: 			   Survival 0
Fluid Oceans: 		Seafarer 0
Garden: 			   Animals 0
High Technology: 	Computers 0
High Population:    Streetwise 0
Ice-Capped: 		  Vacc Suit 0
Industrial: 		  Trade 0
Low Technology: 	 Survival 0
Poor: 			     Animals 0
Rich: 			     Carouse 0
Water World: 		 Seafarer 0
Vacuum: 		      Vacc Suit 0

I saw that and thought that it was "the camel's nose in the tent, but not the entire camel" so I asked to make sure.

 

[Golan2072]

Now I think it's clear I can't redefine any of the existing world attributes which is sensible, but I don't think there's anything to stop me changing the way they are generated (I probably don't need to, but may throw in some optional modifications) or adding new ones.

There is no problem at all with that - the only thing the TLL requires is that you use the same six base attribute names. Only character characteristic generation rules are prohibited from TLL products - world generation is totally OK.

One potential issue though is that I want to comment on the use of the Space Opera or Hard SF options for Starfall. As I understand it, because they're not in the SRD I can't even say something like "Referees may want to consider using the Hard SF or Space Opera options for world generation in their Starfall campaign".

I guess that page references to the TMB are OK if you're using the TLL - after all, the player/referee is required to have the TMB in order to use any book published under the TLL. You just can't copy and paste these rules into your product.

 

[simonh]

There is no problem at all with that - the only thing the TLL requires is that you use the same six base attribute names.

Cool, I think mere referencing of that kind would be covered by normal fair use rights anyway.

Only character characteristic generation rules are prohibited from TLL products - world generation is totally OK.

Incidentaly because the tables defining what many of the world description codes mean (e.g. government type) aren't in the SRD, this means while it's possible to publish variants of the world creation system, those variants will also require the use of the TMB in order to know what the codes mean.

That's cool too, I think the whole point is to provide the ability to produce alternate and derivative works that are still compatible with the TMB and requires it's use in the same way you need it to generate characteristic values. If people want to produce completely independent world generation systems, they can do so anyway. The idea isn't to let people just republish the TMB with their name on it, after all.

I'm happy. Looking at Starfall, I can't think of anything I'd want to do with it that isn't amply, and fairly covered by the SRD and TLL.

Simon Hibbs

 

[thepugilist]

I feel pretty dumb for asking this but I cannot seem to find the link to download the Traveller Developer's Pack. I can get here:

http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/news/news_item.php?pkid_news=234

But see no "link below". Am I missing something obvious? Thanks!

 

[Golan2072]

Here you go

 

[thepugilist]

Thanks! I got the core book over the weekend and I wanted to take a look at the SRD/license material.

 

[Vile]

I'm happy. Looking at Starfall, I can't think of anything I'd want to do with it that isn't amply, and fairly covered by the SRD and TLL.

Although it would be nice if the alternative drive technologies were mentioned ... :wink:

 

[simonh]

Although it would be nice if the alternative drive technologies were mentioned ... :wink:

Sure. I'm not fussed because I really see those as place holders - examples of how they might work but for any given ATU you might well want to roll your own versions. In any case Warp Drive, Hyperdrive, etc (even Jump Drive actually) are generic terms not specific to Traveller so their use as terms can't be restricted.

Simon

 

[Ommadawn]

Although it would be nice if the alternative drive technologies were mentioned ... :wink:

Sure. I'm not fussed because I really see those as place holders - examples of how they might work but for any given ATU you might well want to roll your own versions. In any case Warp Drive, Hyperdrive, etc (even Jump Drive actually) are generic terms not specific to Traveller so their use as terms can't be restricted.

Simon

And things like FTL drives (what they are and how they work) are specific enough to any setting that there's really little effort in making your own variant up on your own.

Craig.

 

[Vile]

Guys, I know we can make up our own. :wink:

The reason I keep bringing up the issue of the 'missing' technology in the SRD (until we get the answer from those who know) is because having those terms in there will allow writers to produce settings which are fully compatible with the TMB. In other words, people who want to use MGT as-is, without new rules to learn, can pick up the setting and go.

That's what I'm trying to get at. Every 'house rule' in a setting book is going to put off some potential users. My goal is to come up with a setting which is 100% compatible with MGT - as it says on the (TLL) box!

 

[thepugilist]

Thanks! I got the core book over the weekend and I wanted to take a look at the SRD/license material.

On a side note, is anyone else unable to see the "links below" for downloading stuff like this and the Signs & Portents?

 

[Alan Hume]

I cant see it
but then I can never download signs and portents
either, it just comes out all gobblidigook

alan