Traveller Developer's Pack

[EDG]

I go to here:
http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/home/series.php?qsSeries=51

The link is at the bottom of the page, but I can only download it by right-clicking on the link and saving it. For reasons unknown to me, if I just left-click the link it says that it's saving it, but then doesn't save anything at all. But right-clicking works.

 

[Gruffty the Hiver]

Oops ... missed that link before ...

... sorry people ...

 

[far-trader]

Oops ... missed that link before ...

... sorry people ...

Don't sweat it Hiver buddy, several other sophonts have fallen for the same maze of endless looping links. Myself included shortly after joining the forum and another just lately that I helped find the path. The site navigation doesn't seem terribly intuitive at times Maybe it's a mongoose in a maze kind of test

 

[MongooseMatt]

where the only link to the Developer's Pack is:

http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/news/news_item.php?pkid_news=234

Keep scrolling down - however, we are aware of this potential looop, and are looking into it.

 

[Gruffty the Hiver]

where the only link to the Developer's Pack is:

http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/news/news_item.php?pkid_news=234

Keep scrolling down - however, we are aware of this potential looop, and are looking into it.

Thanks Matt

 

[Dyrewulf]

Hey Matt,

I am currently developing a new Setting that is not OTU...however several things have come up and I was wondering if we can create an alternate chargen section with our setting...the rule allows for extra skills.
Can we still do this if it is labeled as an alternate?
We also wanted to add new classes or change up existing classes...like the Marines are a bit different in our setting...can we change them?

 

[Vile]

To try out the SRD, I attempted to build a ship with the information as given, and there seem to be some things missing. Is this intentional, or have these been left out in error:

1) Crew Requirements - some are listed under Space Combat, but not all.

2) Powerplant Fuel Tonnage.

3) Computer Requirements for Jump - Jump Control Specialisation (bis) is available, but there is nothing to indicate the meaning of the computer's rating. What rating is needed for a given jump range?

4) Vehicles and Drones - tonnage and cost are mentioned, but not listed.

5) Armaments - there is no indication that Particle Beams cannot be mounted three-to-a-turret.

I notice that there are a few things like this throughout the document, whee something is referred to but then not detailed. For example, world government types are not listed, although the roll to generate them is given, and the Gov UWP actually affects the determination of "rivals, factions, connections and colonies". the Law Level, Travel Code, and possibly other things.

To wit, could these things please be added to the SRD?

 

[EDG]

And the trade codes aren't listed in the SRD either (then again, neither are the trade tables, so maybe that's deliberate?).

 

[tneva82]

And the trade codes aren't listed in the SRD either (then again, neither are the trade tables, so maybe that's deliberate?).

Maybe it's like weapons. You may refer to table in main rulebook and create your own weapons/trade items but not include the table from rulebook(atleast I think you can't copy the weapon table from rulebook. Nothing stopping you from making your own weapons though).

 

[simonh]

1) Crew Requirements - some are listed under Space Combat, but not all.

It's enough to get by with. Personally I'm in favour of keeping crew requirements flexible anyway.

2) Powerplant Fuel Tonnage.

Bottom of page 107, mentioned in the section titled 'Fuel'.

3) Computer Requirements for Jump - Jump Control Specialisation (bis) is available, but there is nothing to indicate the meaning of the computer's rating. What rating is needed for a given jump range?

See Jump Control software on page 113. It's not down to the computer rating, but the software it runs.

4) Vehicles and Drones - tonnage and cost are mentioned, but not listed.

Table top left, page 111.

5) Armaments - there is no indication that Particle Beams cannot be mounted three-to-a-turret.

No. Not sure what's up with this. There also aren't any power requirements, some have suggested requiring higher PP codes as a requirement for some energy weapons.

For example, world government types are not listed

See the Government Table, all of page 175.

 

[tneva82]

Bottom of page 107, mentioned in the section titled 'Fuel'.

Umm wasn't he trying to build ship from SRD as given? SRD is 79 pages long.

 

[Jeff Hopper]

Got a couple of questions about SRD omissions, myself.

There is nothing about private message delivery, is this now MGT specific?

No information on different missile types, like damage and cost, was this just overlooked or is it also MGT specific?

 

[Vile]

Bottom of page 107, mentioned in the section titled 'Fuel'.

Umm wasn't he trying to build ship from SRD as given? SRD is 79 pages long.

That's right, I'm talking about the SRD (that is what this thread is about :wink: ). Simon, are you referencing the TMB?

I'm just surprised that such large sections of basic rules have been left out of the SRD. Given that it is supposed to be a toolkit for developers, it seems a few spanners short. If I have to make up rules to cover that gap, how can the result be considered 'compatible with Traveller'?

I have the feeling I'm missing something basic here. Is the idea that we should use the TMB to build ships? If so, why have those partial rules in the SRD? I hope someone can enlighten me.

 

[simonh]

Bottom of page 107, mentioned in the section titled 'Fuel'.

Umm wasn't he trying to build ship from SRD as given? SRD is 79 pages long.

Ignore me, I'm an idiot.

Simon Hibbs

 

[serene_muse]

left clicking works ok for me but that could depend on browser, file settings, network settings...

Oops ... missed that link before ...

... sorry people ...

A Hiver missing something and admitting to it? :shock: :twisted:

Yes, the Developer's Pack download is linked under Downloads (where I should hope it to be), the "loop link" is a link to the news article announcing said download and located in the listing of recent Traveller news links. As in marked Latest News.

Might have helped if the news article was "Traveller Developer's Pack Released" instead of just "Traveller Developer's Pack" which I suspect is the main root cause of confusion.

 

[serene_muse]

I have the feeling I'm missing something basic here. Is the idea that we should use the TMB to build ships? If so, why have those partial rules in the SRD? I hope someone can enlighten me.

I have to say that while it's not the D&D4E GSL or SRD, there are some similar aspects at least in the SRD and the shifting sands of policy* towards fan sites and OTU usage. Right down to the "not wanting to give you a ruleset for free" explanations for parts of the SRD being placeholders of terms. I will grant that Mongoose is directly communicating (though MWM isn't but I expected that), and does seem to be taking feedback into account. Still, the SRD & policy as is is frustrating, there's a slight mismatch between intent and the actual documents.

Right now I'm holding off until 1) Mongoose releases a more finalized, polished version of the "toolkit" 2) if certain aspects continue to not be in the SRD, then I'll wait until some fan retrofits or creates new versions of them


* in that it's still changing and not really yet ready for prime-time yet

 

[simonh]

I have the feeling I'm missing something basic here. Is the idea that we should use the TMB to build ships? If so, why have those partial rules in the SRD? I hope someone can enlighten me.

I have to say that while it's not the D&D4E GSL or SRD, there are some similar aspects at least in the SRD and the shifting sands of policy* towards fan sites and OTU usage.

If you want to design starships for your Traveller campaign set in the OTU, or a similar setting using the same starship technology, then you should use the rules in the TMB. That's what the TMB is for.

My understanding of the SRD is that it's a core set of rules you can use as a basis to develop your own game that's compatible with Traveller supplements. By providing the basic skeleton of the starship design system, what they're saying is you can use that as a basis for developing your own starship design system for your own game setting, maintaining a core level of familiarity and compatibility with Traveller. If they hadn't included those ship design rules in the SRD you couldn't have produced a system even similar to the one in the TMB. By not including the entire design system in the SRD they've prevented you from just republishing the entire Traveller OTU starship design system in your own game, but then why would you want to do that?

The same goes for careers or world creation. By including those, they enable you to develop your own careers and world creation system based on the same core mechanics and concepts as Traveller, but then diverging as you require to suit the specifics of your own setting.

I think it's a logical and measured approach that I think achieves it's goals very well. Of course if your goals are different, then the SRD won't be for you, but I don't know what your goals are.

Simon Hibbs

 

[Vile]

Ok, having looked into the concept of SRDs more closely, I understand that they are only there to aloow the use of certain terms, not to actually replicate the core rules. Therefore, to design ships for a TLL setting, one would have to use the TMB and present the results using terms from the SRD.

My confusion stems from to facts in the current SRD:

1) The alternative drive systems are not includes, nor are software lists, so the only "Traveller compatible" designs which can be created with the TLL are ships which use jump drive and don't mention specific software.

2) There is actually no need for the design tables in the SRD, as the intent is only to let licensees use specific words. IMO it would be better to simply have descriptions of the tech, as partial design tables are no use to anyone.*

*Caveat: I am talking purely from a TLL perspective, not OGL on its own. Obviously one could make up any number of rules for an OGL-only product.

 

[Golan2072]

2) There is actually no need for the design tables in the SRD, as the intent is only to let licensees use specific words. IMO it would be better to simply have descriptions of the tech, as partial design tables are no use to anyone.*

*Caveat: I am talking purely from a TLL perspective, not OGL on its own. Obviously one could make up any number of rules for an OGL-only product.

Even with the TLL, *NOTHING* stops you from creating your own completely usable ship design procedure. The only four things you CAN'T do with the TLL are using the OTU, including a characteristic generation system, using different characteristic names or using different world attribute names (though you could add detailed world generation rules if you want). The rest is free game - but you might have to create some of the mechanics on your own.

Of course, you could also create Traveller-compatible books without any new rules or only with partial rules. After all, you don't have to include everything from the rulebook in an adventure or setting book.

With the SRD alone, you could do *ANYTHING YOU WANT* as long as you don't use someone's Closed Contents or Product Identity.

 

[simonh]

Ok, having looked into the concept of SRDs more closely, I understand that they are only there to aloow the use of certain terms, not to actually replicate the core rules. Therefore, to design ships for a TLL setting, one would have to use the TMB and present the results using terms from the SRD.

The SRD and the TLL are completely seperate and are essentialy unrelated. They also have different goals.

The goal of the SRD is to enable you to develop new SF games and settings using the core rules as a starting point. These may not use the TLL since clause 7 of the OGL explicitly disallows use of any product identity, and the Traveller Logo counts as such. You can't even mention Traveller.

The goal of the TLL is for you to be able to produce supplements for the Traveller game, and marked as such. Whether something is or isn't in the SRD doesn't have any bearing on whether you can use it in products covered by the TLL.

The OGL and the TLL are seperate and distinct licenses with their own terms and conditions, which should not be confused. They are also incompatible with each other. You supplement can be OGL or TLL compliant, but not both.

Simon Hibbs