Traveller and Trek

dmccoy1693

Cosmic Mongoose
Those of you that haven't heard, Star Trek is being relaunched next year with a whole new group of (young) actors playing the TOS crew. The first stills from the movie were released last week. Most of them are just the actors in various poses or whatever, but the bridge shot is the first real shot we have of the set.

Do any of you think of the bridge of your ships like this? I don't know about anyone else, but I tend to think of the bridge of the ship my players fly on more like Firefly/Serenity then this. But still it is ... interesting.
 
Just because Kirk was the youngest Captain in Star Fleet doesn't mean he should look like a punk kid. He's really the sour note in that picture.

Oh right, the bridge itself. :P

Awfully shiny if you ask me, and that coffeehouse table to the right of the Command chair (with the standing crewfem) doesn't fit the rest of what we can see.

Except for the "Captain on Stage" effect of most ship-to-ship communications in ST, the huge open bridge doesn't make all that much sense to me.
 
All my "players" ships would kind of look more like the
bridge on Serenity/Firefly and maybe the Nostromo in the original
"Alien" movie, that lived in look you know

but Imperial Battleships, oh yeah, Star Trek all the way (oh and maybe
Star Wars Imperial Star Destroyers too:.)
 
Hmmm...

Well, the bridge doesn't invoke original Star Trek to me at all. I do understand they need to make it look more "modern", and that this is a reimaging, but it just seems too far divorced from classic Trek. It's the "Shiney Happy Trek" bridge. I guess if this was the USS Lolipop, a Good Ship (As mentioned once by Riker in ST:TNG. ;) ) then I could see a bridge like this.

Smaller ships, yep /agree...would go with Firefly. Larger bridges, like on a capital ship...Star Wars, the Imperial Star Destroyer bridge, maybe Vader's Command Star Destroyer. Was still clean and spotless, but it felt like a working bridge. That...well...screams more "Las Vegas Casino attempt to make a generic ship bridge for a generic Sci-Fi themed Casino" then anything. In fact, if memory serves me right, most of the Star Trek Experience in the Las Vegas Hilton looked more like a Trek set then that bridge.


Um..okay, short form. Still going to give the movie as a whole a chance. Movie as a whole could be great. But IMO that bridge sucks.
 
It looks too 'busy', in design terms. I think it would be difficult for the crew to concentrate on the displays they were interested in because the rest of the bridge is so gaudily distracting.

Look at real military command room design - muted lighting and unobtrusive displays and readouts because that makes for a comfortable and useable work space. I'm not just arguing this for realism though, the flashy design looks distracting for the audience as well.

Simon Hibbs
 
Tis too soon to make definitive judgements.

For a start, it's not clear what angle that shot is from, so it's not easy to come to any real conclusions on it.

As for Chris Pine as Kirk, it's out of order really to have an opinion until we've actually seen him act. He's not going to be impersonating The Shat; that would be awful.

Just as Daniel Craig does not have to impersonate Sean Connery.

If they were having to constantly look over their shoulders at TOS, then the whole project is doomed to failure.

So far, I tentatively like it. The screens do look a little busy, but it is a still, and they will be in motion. I'm liking the look of the USS Kelvin, too. The phasers look possibly like turrets....

As for the original bridge design....

They went to the military and NASA engineers for advice on that. To the point that the US military are building control rooms that match that basic design. So yes, it is good as a set for a TV show, but first it's a real, conceptual idea that comes from the kind of people who might actually work in such a place.
 
Unfortunately, I've never had a Traveller campaign last long enough for the players to have a big ship, but as a child of the 60s, Trek has had a lasting influence on me, for better or worse. My first thought when hearing the word "starship" is the Enterprise.

According to my reading, Matt Jeffries was most responsible for the original bridge. He had been in the Air Force, IIRC, and hated the way controls were laid out. This was before the word "ergonomic" was in common use. He reasoned the captain should be in the center, able to swivel around and see any display easily. He pinned pieces of paper on the wall, and marked off comfortable sight and reach lines for the displays and controls. If you look at pictures of the original bridge, all the controls are arrayed in curves centered on the operator's seat, thus easy to reach. The displays angle to be comfortable for most user's sight lines. Even the winky blinky lights had a rationale. Jeffries reasoned green (normal), yellow (caution), red (alert), instead of just what looked cool. Back in the day, the military was coming to him for advice, since what they had was less functional.

I was disappointed to see the new bridge get away from that. Uhura's hostess station seems to belong in a restaurant, not the bridge.

But yeah, if I ever have a big ship campaign, Old Trek would be the way for me.

Here's a picture of the original pilot bridge.
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/en/images/d/dd/Constitution_class_bridge_2250s.jpg
Love those gooseneck viewers!
 
dmccoy1693 said:
Those of you that haven't heard, Star Trek is being relaunched next year with a whole new group of (young) actors playing the TOS crew...

Spock is..Sylar!?!? :shock:

I don't know which is more dangerous..his neck pinch or his finger!
 
Hi,

I think I agree that the new Star Trek bridge does look a bit busy though I always did like the layout of the original Star Trek bridge.

As far as Traveller goes, the original Star Trek bridge layout seems reasonable for a large ship, but most of the ships I've ever used or considered to use when playing were never really all that big.

As such, when doing deck plans I've tried a variety of different layouts, depending on how much space I have available. Although I've used something similar in looks to an airplane cockpit for some designs, since Traveller type ships might be underway for several weeks at a time lately I've been leaning more along the lines of how a small ocean going ship's bridge might look.

Regards

PF
 
Mapping watercraft to space has a long tradition, from the organizational hallmarks of ocean-going navies being transposed to space navies ("The Mote in God's Eye" being a classic example), to the instantly recognized SC Yamato, a WWII battleship converted directly to space use.

Many of my early deckplan attempts look a lot like modern superfreighters. It's an easy design aesthetic to practice with the "couple-to-several thousand tons" size range, since you build a smallish superstructure with the Bridge and crew staterooms in it, getting lots of windows and funny shapes in the process, then paste the whole thing near the back end of the top of a long slab or "cylinder" (which may be of square, rectangular, or even triangular cross-section) containing the drives, fuel and "payload" (be it cargo, a fighter flight deck, troops, or a big spinal mount). You may never actually use them, but such designs are good deckplanning practice for that size range.

Most of mine are on graph paper and almost 30 years old, or I'd share...
 
Alan Hume said:
I like the idea of using a small ocean going ship as a template
that is very clever :D

that's how I generally prefer to think of freetraders. Similar in design to 40-70 ft yachts (modified to haul cargo).
 
Leo Knight said:
I was disappointed to see the new bridge get away from that. Uhura's hostess station seems to belong in a restaurant, not the bridge.

I do generally agree with most of Leo Knight's post, the only reason I'm pointing this out is that I don't think that's Uhura at the "hostess station". If nothing else her skin complexion is too light IMO in that shot to be her. I wonder if that's a Yeoman's station, not communications? Since they (at least as far as I could tell from TOS) seemed to be the one officer doing "gopher" duty on the bridge (Bringing Kirk a cup of coffee, bringing Kirk some clipboard to sign or check over, etc), I could almost see (note I said almost) a station like that, since she wouldn't be on the bridge unless she is delivering a document or a drink to the captain.

Here, this shot on www.imdb.com includes Uhura on the far right of the image:

http://www.imdb.com/media/rm4214985728/tt0796366
 
dmccoy1693 said:
that's how I generally prefer to think of freetraders. Similar in design to 40-70 ft yachts (modified to haul cargo).

Hi,

I had mostly been thinking of stuff like patrol boats, research ships and/or small freighters, but I also like your idea about ocean-going yachts. They would make a good source to use since there are so many yachting magazines and such with reasonable deck plans available.

On the topic of bridge layouts in general, here is an image I put together awhile ago for a discussion I was involved with on bridge size and lay-out for a different set of rules on another board. The reason I drew up this sketch was because some people were suggesting that a 20 dton bridge (as was included in many original Traveller designs) was way bigger than what might be needed on a small ship and that a small cockpit-like space might be more suitable for a spaceship. As such I wanted to try and put together something simple to compare the two ideas.

On the right is a cockpit like bridge I had originally included in a 300dton freighter I put together for the Intersteller War period of Traveller. Its about 3 dtons in size and I only made it that size because that was the space I had available, and on that ship I had placed a second control station/engine monitoring station in the engine room, as well.

The image on the left though is a generic 20dton space kind of layed out based on some stuff I had seen on ocean-going ships, as well as stuff maybe a little inspired from shows like Star Trek, etc. Its layed out with what could either be windows or a digital view screen forward and small stand alone consoles for the navigator and helmsman forward. The thrid seat could either be an engineer's or gunners station (and space is available for either a forth seat or a holographic display area, etc as well).

Along the two side walls are equipment racks etc for the communications, sensors, avionics and ship's diagnostics etc. These are sized to only be 1/2 a deck square wide so that each unit adds up to about 1 dton in size. Similarly there two other spaces at the aft end of the bridge (one of which is 1dton in size and the other about 0.7 dtons) Either of these two spaces at the aft end of the bridge could be used as an equipment locker, a deck head/fresher, a small galley, or whatever else you might think makes sense, on your ship.

In general I made the larger bridge more or less square instead of round (like on Star Trek) just because I thought it would be easier to integrate into a deck plan that way.

Anyway, just thought I post this here if anyone is interested.

Regards

PF

P.S. The seats on the small bridge are based on some seat drawings I had for ocean-going vessels, but the seats on the 20dton bridge were made a little wider to accommodate the ability to sit in them while wearing a VACC suit based on something I once saw in a book about the Space Shuttle.

Bridges.jpg
 
I always figured a standard bridge (20 tons) had 4 places:

Pilot
Astrogator
Engineering/Life Support
Sensors/Comms

Each station has 4 monitors. A Primary and Secondary for it's main function. Two smaller monitors allow additional info to be pulled up. At higher TL, these are touch screens and 3D and eventually holographic.

On smaller ships, like the Scout, only 1-2 positions are normally used. All positions can be slaved to a single station for one-person operations.

CJ Cherryh's "Pride of Chanur" has a nice section about bridge operations and switching info between stations.

I also figured about 1/2 the bridge volume was not actually on the bridge but accounted for avionics, landing gear, an airlock etc. Now with the TMB, the Computer would also be included in that tonnage (and the interfaces).
 
Back
Top