Traveller 5th Edition

[Captain Jonah]

...So what now? Will we have different versions of the Traveller game battling against one another for everyones dollar?

I doubt it. People will buy into the one they like, which ever one that is. I suspect there are some who have been waiting for this and haven't been happy with or bought into MgT. So no loss there for Mongoose. Likewise there are those who don't give a fig for T5 and never intended to buy into it and will stick with MgT (for GT, or MT, or TNE, or CT, etc.). So again, no loss for Mongoose.

I am a real long time fan and have always bought it all, and will continue to do so but others are not like me.

And then there is that, which probably describes the majority. You are not so alone as you may think you are. Which is of course again no loss for MgT.

Net: More Traveller material without anyone loosing sales.

Yep.

Since all the versions have a great deal in common its going to be little trouble to use adventures and deck plans from one in the other. Also since if you put 10 Traveller players and refs in a room they will have 11 versions of how they run the rules for their games the hard core rules are not so important.


Lets face it all the good ideas from T5 are going to get house ruled into Mongoose games and good ideas from Mongoose rules will be house rulled into T5 games.

As someone who may never run a game of T5 things like a players handbook are of little use but the main rules are. Plus more deck plans, more adventures, more campaigns/maps/systems/ deck plans /sectors/history/fluff/sub sectors/deck plans etc are always welcome and very easy to move from Classic to Mongoose to T5 and back.

 

[2330ADUSA1]

Well I have T4 d20 and Hero Systems ver 5R Hero Traveller on the book shelves behind me as well too. Now I really like Hero's System and own everything that was HS Ver. 5R and that includes the Hero's System version of Traveller as well too (2) Books:

- Traveller Hero Book 1: Adventures in charted space (character creation, Psionics, Combat and races)
- Traveller Hero Book 2: Adventured in charted space (the Imperium, Gadgets, Vehicles, Robots and Starships)

Also I have the 1248 Traveller setting as well too:

- Traveller 1248 Out of the Darkness -Traveller 1248 Sourcebook 1
- Traveller 1248 Bearers of the Flame - Traveller 1248 Sourcebook 2

All (4) of these books were Awesome and I am glad I bought them and would have continued to buy more in their lines if they had continued to produce more. The Traveller Hero and Traveller 1248 lines both stopped when Mongoose Publishing started up but I bought into this line as you can see. I just want Mongoose Pub to continue is all, and I will buy T5 as well too. Yes I buy it all and add to my huge library as resource material. Remember too I have many inhouse rules that I have used now for 25+ yrs and my own system is based off the d100 % system anyway. All these systems are very easy to convert to my own inhome rules system anyway.

Penn

 

[F33D]

Actually, our postal service demands 15,90 Euro for a parcel
of up to 2 kg / worldwide and only 8,90 Euro within the EU.
So, instead of sending the parcels individually from the USA,
the smart thing would be to send all parcels for customers
in the EU as a single package to a distributor within the EU,
who could then distribute them to the individual customers
at the low EU rates. This is how it is normally done.

"DP has received state subsidies. Critics have maintained that these state monies were used to shore up the firm’s loss-making parcel service. Legal battles have ensued for the better part of a decade. In 2002, the European Commission ordered DP to return the subsidies. But six years later, an EU court ruled that DP could reclaim the subsidies with interest, as competition authorities had failed to prove that subsidies were illegitimate."


The USPS has not directly received taxpayer money since the early 1980s with the minor exception for costs associated with the disabled and overseas voters...

 

[GamerDude]

Honestly, for what we give to creators vs what get, we have a great deal going; and I'm speaking of the whole industry here.

Unfortunately the overwhelming majority of the creators who made Traveller what is it by contributing to its various versions will see zero of that Kickstarter money,

And why should they? Did someone who contributed to CT but not MT have gotten paid from the sales of MT books? Hell No. Same thing for contributors to CT or MT but not TNE when it came out, they didn't get any money for the sales of TNE books.

The T5 Kickstarter is to get T5 published, and it's up front how much has been pledged - no one is being coerced to pledge any amount or after the kickstarter gets above a certain level.

The Kickstarter thing is far more about hero worship than giving something back to those who actually kept the game alive after CT.

So, all the other games done through Kickstarter *(like new HackMaster)* are all "hero worship" and not about good games?

Anyhow, the horse is dead now.

typical.

 

[lordmalachdrim]

HackMaster was not and is not being done on kickstarter. They did a preorder on their web site for the hardcopy and you got the beta pdf with updates throughout the development and layout of the book.

 

[daryen]

...So what now? Will we have different versions of the Traveller game battling against one another for everyones dollar?

I doubt it. People will buy into the one they like, which ever one that is. I suspect there are some who have been waiting for this and haven't been happy with or bought into MgT. So no loss there for Mongoose. Likewise there are those who don't give a fig for T5 and never intended to buy into it and will stick with MgT (...or GT, or MT, or TNE, or CT, etc.). So again, no loss for Mongoose.

Net: More Traveller material without anyone loosing sales.

I think you are being wildly naive. At least way too optimistic.

Mongoose Traveller is the only version of Traveller that is actually publishing product. That means that even people who are not that wild about Mongoose or Mongoose Traveller are still likely to buy the game. Once there is a "new Traveller" made directly by "the guy who created Traveller", that is just going to have to have an impact on the sales (and penetration) of Mongoose Traveller. I really don't see a way around that.

Also, if it was just a one-time "vanity project", then, yes, I agree the impact would be minimal to non-existent. However, if it does become a viable line of products that are regularly produced, printed, and sold, then that is pretty much guaranteed to come at the expense of Mongoose Traveller. (I do admit that is a pretty big 'if'.)

 

[phavoc]

I don't think that T5 books will have much impact on the Mongoose Traveller line. While there may be a few here or there, I think people will most likely buy both if they are big Traveller fans, or they've already made their vote with their money.

I have every version of Traveller except for the D20 stuff. Until the GURPS stuff came out, I bought supplements and books because I liked the game. For GURPS I bought virtually all the stuff because a) it was cool, and b) the production values of SJG are at the tops of any game publisher I've yet to encounter. Not only did they take the core game forward, the added to it quite considerably. I have had only two qualms with MgT's Traveller thus far - 1) The books and supplements are constant sources of consternation for me because they are riddled with errors and extremely poor editing. It's atrocious, and I expect a LOT of a publisher when I'm paying $40 for a sourcebook. The minimum being that it was edited well.... 2) MgT has brought very little to the game except to publish materials that have already been published (sometimes multiple times). I understand the desire to put their own 'spin' on things, which I don't mind, but please at least ADD things to the books. Lets see some new things, new ships, new supplements that haven't existed yet.

Yeah, I bought into the kickstarter T5 stuff. At first I wasn't going to, but the reality is that I would have bought the book anyway, so in essence I've pre-ordered it. Having that money upfront makes a TON of difference for someone self-publishing. MM doesn't have GDW or another gaming publishing house behind him anymore, so he's relying on the userbase to pony up the initial print costs. Yeah, there's some extras in there I wouldn't normally buy, but I didn't have the ability to pick and choose.

 

[2330ADUSA1]

Well as I have already said, I will buy it all but I can see T5 as causing issues for MGT. Now as to redoing the previews Traveller products, I feel they have greatly added to any product that they have redone and added alot more updated details and items into each. Call it putting order to all the previous products. Eventually once everything has been redone, then the pure new stuff will add to the collective mass whole.

It will be interesting to see what timeline T5 will follow, does anyone from the playtest crew know what timeline T5 is going to be set at?

 

[zozotroll]

I do agree that MGT has added a lot to many of the products they have redone. 2nd ed 760 patrons is really great, as is CSC. I will use those both for years nomatter what edition is out.

I am glad they are redoing things, I never collected the original. I was in college at that time, and each of my gaming circle collected different things because we could not afford everything we wanted. I did Runequest because that is what I GMed. Somwbody else did trqaveller. But I love the game, and with MGT I have collected most of the stuff. And am waiting for more. Just wish they would actualy do something with Drinax. Great idea they are letting die from lack of interest.

Owen

 

[Fovean]

It will be interesting to see what timeline T5 will follow, does anyone from the playtest crew know what timeline T5 is going to be set at?

All the examples in the playtest materials use Spinward Marches 1105. Stands to reason that will be the default setting... again.

I too love Traveller (I started in 1984) and T5 has a lot of interesting things in it - but it's a different system to MGT, very heavily rules-oriented and likely too detailed for most. I don't think it can be readily grasped like MGT, nor play as fast, but it will be a good game for those that take to it.

MGT is my favorite version of all the previous ones and I would be surprised if T5 makes a meaningful dent in its sales. Presuming MG still has the rest of its license available... and that T5 delivers on time... and that some other game doesn't pop up that hurts them both...

 

[2330ADUSA1]

Well as I said I will buy T5 regardless, and anything that is put out for it as well too. I will also continue to purchase MGT's stuff as well too. Now for me I use my own InHouse rules set that are tried and true for me now for 25+ yrs and based off mostly the d100 system, and everything else is just resorse materials that are easily adapted to my own gaming syste. So for me the more the better, my own issue now is to get my new addition done on my home for my new entertainment room that will allow me to display all of my stuff in my own gaming library for dad's hobby! My wife has her 176 yr old restored Victorian home, and I am building a 2nd floor to my garage that will be heated and be a 30 by 75 foot room dedicated to dad's gaming hobby. Wall to wall shelves to display all my books(library) and minis. I have 36 yrs of stuff to display, and a need a perfect game area for me and the boys to game in uninterrupted. Construction starts later this month.

 

[GamerDude]

I can't remember if I've posted my thoughts in this thread so heck, why not again?

First, what we call "Traveller" has been two things: The 'Traveller' system/mechanic and 'The Third Imperium' setting. The original Traveller LBB's didn't have a 'setting' in them per se, but the entire mechanic was driven by how Marc envisioned the Third Imperium.

Think of it as AD&D/D&D and Greyhawk as one up through v3.5, the deities and race descriptions were for Greyhawk and such, later works specifically mention Greyhawk whereas in the book the deities and stuff are "there".

GURPS and T20 were not "Traveller" they were the Third Imperium published using the mechanics of their respective publishers.

Fast forward to today: Mongoose has stripped the mechanics called "Traveller", still at its core heavily driven by the setting "The Third Imperium" and is the engine for many settings: Judge Dread, Strontium Dogs, Hammer's Slammers, and yes virginia - The Third Imperium.

What's nice is now you can cleanly use MGT mechanics to run anything, and honestly you can use the MGT:3I books under almost any system the UPP's (and racial stuff) are all that's in the MGT mechanic.

What does this mean with T5 coming out? nothing. T5 is T5 was supposed to come out same time as MGT, be compatible, and out the gate was a "roll low" system which made everything backwards and confusing. Play it if you want, no biggie either way.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

Mongoose Traveller is the only version of Traveller that is actually publishing product. That means that even people who are not that wild about Mongoose or Mongoose Traveller are still likely to buy the game. Once there is a "new Traveller" made directly by "the guy who created Traveller", that is just going to have to have an impact on the sales (and penetration) of Mongoose Traveller. I really don't see a way around that.

Also, if it was just a one-time "vanity project", then, yes, I agree the impact would be minimal to non-existent. However, if it does become a viable line of products that are regularly produced, printed, and sold, then that is pretty much guaranteed to come at the expense of Mongoose Traveller. (I do admit that is a pretty big 'if'.)

If someone doesn't like Mongoose Traveller, I doubt they are interested in any Traveller. If they long for a GDW comeback and a whole new series of T5 product by buying a Traveller 5 book, they should get used to the idea (if they haven't already) that the book will probably be the only thing published by Marc Miller. There may be a few PDFs popping up that say "Playable with T5". But by then, the T5 craze spell will have worn off. And Mongoose will still be here producing books and selling them as long as they continue to keep them in stock.

 

[far-trader]

If someone doesn't like Mongoose Traveller, I doubt they are interested in any Traveller.

Do I like MgT? Quality has been hit or miss. I've bought Core and HG and find little new in them. Mostly it's CT. So too with the rest I've looked at. So I think you can put me in the demographic of "doesn't like Mongoose Traveller" though to be clear I don't hate it either.

So you would doubt I am interested in ANY Traveller. My interest is long lived, deep, and still strong. I've played most of the rule sets for the game, some I like, some I don't, but the game, Traveller, I still love, warts and all. That's more than just "interested" in my opinion. And I'm hardly an outlier example.

So your opinion that someone either likes MgT or they aren't interested in Traveller is wrong.

 

[lordmalachdrim]

I also disagree that if you don't like Mongoose Traveller you don't like Traveller. I really enjoy traveller just not mongoose/classic. I need more crunch then what they offer.

 

[Wil Mireu]

Same here. I like the MGT corebook well enough, but the supplements are not very good IMO. My preferred forms of Traveller are Megatraveller, The New Era, and GURPS Traveller.

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

So your opinion that someone either likes MgT or they aren't interested in Traveller is wrong.

Ok. Someone is in a game store and they are looking at the RPG book shelves and see the Mongoose Traveller Core Rulebook and some of the supplements and Third Imperium books. They look through the Core Rulebook and go, "Meh." They put the book back on the shelf and look at what other RPG games the store has.

Are they interested in Traveller?

 

[ShawnDriscoll]

I also disagree that if you don't like Mongoose Traveller you don't like Traveller. I really enjoy traveller just not mongoose/classic. I need more crunch then what they offer.

You liked Mongoose Traveller enough to buy it. When I say don't like Mongoose Traveller, I mean don't like it and don't buy the book.

There's a lot of RPG players that just don't care for Sci-Fi. It's not an interest for them. Some players need toys to go with their game setting. Some need the full-on color renders on every page of the book which needs to be hard cover always.

If someone buys a Traveller book, they are interested in Traveller obviously. Anyone that is interested in Traveller has more than probably bought the Mongoose Core Rulebook. Why be on this forum otherwise? Because you don't like Mongoose Traveller?

 

[far-trader]

Ok. Someone is in a game store and they are looking at the RPG book shelves and see the Mongoose Traveller Core Rulebook and some of the supplements and Third Imperium books. They look through the Core Rulebook and go, "Meh." They put the book back on the shelf and look at what other RPG games the store has.

Are they interested in Traveller?

That shows they are not interested in Mongoose Traveller, nothing more. They may well be interested in Traveller in another form. What you described is exactly what happened when I found GURPS Traveller upon release. I was in a game store looking at RPG new releases and saw GURPS Traveller. "COOL!" I picked it up, flipped through it, and put it back down disappointed. Didn't like it. And looked at other games. I was still interested in Traveller though. And same with MgT. Except I couldn't pick up the book at the store, I had to buy the PDF online. "Meh". If I could have I'd have put it back too. And still I'm interested in Traveller.

Again and still your premise is wrong. And now you're just trying to build a special case or something instead of admitting it's wrong. Further participation on my part in this "debate" seems pointless. Go ahead and have the last word on it.

 

[hdan]

What you described is exactly what happened when I found GURPS Traveller upon release. I was in a game store looking at RPG new releases and saw GURPS Traveller. "COOL!" I picked it up, flipped through it, and put it back down disappointed.

That matches my experience also, except I actually bought the GURPS Traveller book. After reading through it though, I couldn't escape the feeling that it was a guidebook for how to emulate Traveller using GURPS, not a new version of Traveller. The fact that they also switched meters out for yards was off-putting as well. Not only an emulation, but an unfaithful one. I had a similar but lesser reaction to T4. I picked it up hoping for a sleek new version of Traveller I could get my group excited about, and wound up just not that excited.

I keep coming back to a quote from a famous computer language designer - "Smalltalk is a better Smalltalk than C will ever be", (said by Bjarne Stroustroup about the language "Objective-C", a competitor to his own "C++" language).

So that leaves me wondering if T5 will feel like some other game emulating Traveller, or if it will feel like "real Traveller" the way that the LBBs do and to a large extent MgT does.

For the record, I missed out on the whole MegaTraveller and TNE periods - I did play some LBB (well really TTB) Traveller in the late 80's, but by the 90's my group was all "AD&D2e or Nothing".