Traveller 5E
- Thread starter Sigtrygg
- Start date
Hard to say, since the art they've been using for the Backerkit is basically old Mongoose stuff. But even if it does have felinoid aliens and canid aliens (or uplifts) it doesn't follow that they're Aslan or Vargr.
All the miniatures seem human, though there may be variant subspecies in there (some are a bit stocky and I swear one has pointy ears...)
I guess we'll find out soon enough.
Getting back to my comment yesterday... since it has a sizable "Gear and Robots" book, 5E players may not be prime customers for Robot Handbook or CSC. The Worlds and Vehicles also sounds like it covers those areas pretty well (85+ illustrated vehicles plus design rules, 45+ illustrated animals plus design rules), so the planetside parts of WBH, and the Vehicle Handbook are also probably covered.
All the miniatures seem human, though there may be variant subspecies in there (some are a bit stocky and I swear one has pointy ears...)
I guess we'll find out soon enough.
Getting back to my comment yesterday... since it has a sizable "Gear and Robots" book, 5E players may not be prime customers for Robot Handbook or CSC. The Worlds and Vehicles also sounds like it covers those areas pretty well (85+ illustrated vehicles plus design rules, 45+ illustrated animals plus design rules), so the planetside parts of WBH, and the Vehicle Handbook are also probably covered.
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Sigtrygg
Emperor Mongoose
It has happened canonically.
Prior to the invention of jump drive the Earth's nations sent out STL colony ships, one such journey resulted in the Islands Cluster as originally detailed in TCS.
"Early in the space-faring history of Terra, a long-range program of interstellar colonization was begun, only to be abandoned with the discovery of the jump drive. Before that abandonment, however, several large colony expeditions were launched."
We are also told that the Vilani and Zhodani explored and set up colonies using STL.
"4,882 BC Vilani sublight interstellar colonization
4,717 BC Vilani discover Jump Drive
1,482 BC First Zhodani sublight interstellar flights
1305 BC Zhodani Consulate established
897 BC Zhodani discover Jump drive."
Many would welcome this, Charted Space and its galaxy are not how everyone runs Traveller...
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It's interesting to me the difference in time between the Vilani and Zho between sublight expeditions and Discovering Jump Drive (165y vs 585y).
We know the Vilani are extremely cautious and methodical, so it scans that they wouldn't have even contemplated interstellar travel until they were overprepared for it. While the Zho seem to have spent quite a bit of time in sublight exploration mode. Luck probably played a part in it, but the Zho do appear to be a lot more adventurous as a culture.
We know the Vilani are extremely cautious and methodical, so it scans that they wouldn't have even contemplated interstellar travel until they were overprepared for it. While the Zho seem to have spent quite a bit of time in sublight exploration mode. Luck probably played a part in it, but the Zho do appear to be a lot more adventurous as a culture.
mavikfelna
Emperor Mongoose
I was really disappointed to hear they aren't mapping EDU to INT and INT to WIS, because that's where they belong. I've long disliked SOC as a stat and agree with their changing it to a trait or title.
Other than, it at least sounds like they are trying to keep a viable life path system.
CordwainerFish
Emperor Mongoose
Oh, if the Vilani had discovered the Toliak they would have sent everyone who knew about it off to live on an island somewhere.
(A real island. They're not Solomani, for Grandfather's sake.)
SOC as a stat worked in CT because stats didn't have fixed bonuses. You had situations where SOC 12 was a bonus and situations where it was a penalty. But in later editions (like Mongoose) where SOC is applied as a bonus or penalty to social rolls period, it breaks down badly. Traveller could use a way to have a socially inept Lordling and a charismatic guttersnipe, both of which are popular archetypes. But there is no mechanism in the base rules for doing that.
It sounds like this 5e game is going what I do with a house rule in my campaign, which is disassociate titles from the SOC stat.
mavikfelna
Emperor Mongoose
You're right, I had forgotten that. I much prefer using something like Vargr CHA and letting social standing be a situational modifier like CT.
I mean, it's a fair point... but at least in Mongoose 2e the characteristic used is contextual (including the possibility of not using any). And while there is a case to be argued for Social Standing's relationship to wealth and confidence affecting social situations, INT or EDU (or even physical characteristics in some cases) may be more appropriate for a particular skill check. Carousing (END), Carousing (INT) or Carousing (SOC) are all often seen, in different contexts (example given on CRB2e22, p59).
SOC gets used as the stat modifier when it is the most appropriate characteristic to use, or where it's one of several that could apply. A smart but poorly educated and low social character just does personal interactions a bit different to a thick Aristocrat. It doesn't mean they have a better or worse chance of talking a planetary official into granting them a permit.
And... if high SOC is a detriment to a situation for some reason, a Bane may be an appropriate way to game that, perhaps with a Boon for being scum? Same as if background matters?
Ultimately, it's a rating of social power, same as INT is a rating of brain power and STR is a rating of muscle power. When social power matters, it's the stat you go with.
SOC gets used as the stat modifier when it is the most appropriate characteristic to use, or where it's one of several that could apply. A smart but poorly educated and low social character just does personal interactions a bit different to a thick Aristocrat. It doesn't mean they have a better or worse chance of talking a planetary official into granting them a permit.
And... if high SOC is a detriment to a situation for some reason, a Bane may be an appropriate way to game that, perhaps with a Boon for being scum? Same as if background matters?
Ultimately, it's a rating of social power, same as INT is a rating of brain power and STR is a rating of muscle power. When social power matters, it's the stat you go with.
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A couple problems with that.
Being Lord Whatshisname from Somewhere is not intrinsically "social power" in that many situations. What "Social Power" does the Baron of Faraway have amongst a bunch of belters? Or on a corporate world? If he does have influence, it'll probably be because he's wealthy or he knows people who do actually have power in that situation.
Also, examples in the rules don't really follow that consistently.
Gathering Rumors is something Dukes are better at than other people? (it's listed as a Carousing (SOC) roll in the Core rules).
Lord Popinjay the dilettante is intrinsically better at rallying troops than other people? (Rallying Troops is Leadership (SOC) in the Core rules).
Haggling in the market is also listed as a SOC thing.
More importantly, it leaves no mechanic in the game for reflecting strength of personality or charisma or whatever you want to call it. So, either you are potentially making social skills more difficult than typical skill checks (since they would generally be straight skill with no stat bonus, as suggested on pg 59 for "just carousing in general". Or you are going to be seeing players trying to shoehorn Int into it's place, because they are being clever in their socializing.
That is a thing you could do. Everyone is equally good at socializing. Those especially charismatic people are really just folks with high Skill Ranks. But why is that only for social skills? Wouldn't it make sense to make that the standard for all skills?
Being Lord Whatshisname from Somewhere is not intrinsically "social power" in that many situations. What "Social Power" does the Baron of Faraway have amongst a bunch of belters? Or on a corporate world? If he does have influence, it'll probably be because he's wealthy or he knows people who do actually have power in that situation.
Also, examples in the rules don't really follow that consistently.
Gathering Rumors is something Dukes are better at than other people? (it's listed as a Carousing (SOC) roll in the Core rules).
Lord Popinjay the dilettante is intrinsically better at rallying troops than other people? (Rallying Troops is Leadership (SOC) in the Core rules).
Haggling in the market is also listed as a SOC thing.
More importantly, it leaves no mechanic in the game for reflecting strength of personality or charisma or whatever you want to call it. So, either you are potentially making social skills more difficult than typical skill checks (since they would generally be straight skill with no stat bonus, as suggested on pg 59 for "just carousing in general". Or you are going to be seeing players trying to shoehorn Int into it's place, because they are being clever in their socializing.
That is a thing you could do. Everyone is equally good at socializing. Those especially charismatic people are really just folks with high Skill Ranks. But why is that only for social skills? Wouldn't it make sense to make that the standard for all skills?
WHULorigan
Emperor Mongoose
Sounds like Classic Traveller . . .
Condottiere
Emperor Mongoose
Influence.
Chain of command.
Financial clout.
Separate, but equal.
Chain of command.
Financial clout.
Separate, but equal.
Fluffy Bunny Feet
Emperor Mongoose
People pay more attention to celebrity than they would the same person who isn't. High social isn't just nobles or wealthy but fame. People will listen to a famous boxer (who may be dumb as a rock) more readily than the non famous guy next door with a sky high IQ and 6 degrees relevant to the discussion.
That being the case as a PC gains fame whether by gaining wealth or by deeds that get in the news their SOC should go up. Wealth that is kept hidden won't help SOC till it is revealed. Of course he may gain infamy instead for his evil deeds and for some purposes at least his SOC still goes up.
Captain Bob of the Free Trader Sunshine isn't likely to have high SOC or fame. But the same guy with the same ship but now calling himself Captain Blood of the commerce raider Ravager is more likely to be noticed and have his SOC go up, especially if he owns the ship and has famous battles or builds a raider fleet from his captured vessels. Also more likely to have a famous death as the other side hunts him down, but that is another issue.
That being the case as a PC gains fame whether by gaining wealth or by deeds that get in the news their SOC should go up. Wealth that is kept hidden won't help SOC till it is revealed. Of course he may gain infamy instead for his evil deeds and for some purposes at least his SOC still goes up.
Captain Bob of the Free Trader Sunshine isn't likely to have high SOC or fame. But the same guy with the same ship but now calling himself Captain Blood of the commerce raider Ravager is more likely to be noticed and have his SOC go up, especially if he owns the ship and has famous battles or builds a raider fleet from his captured vessels. Also more likely to have a famous death as the other side hunts him down, but that is another issue.
Yeah. I don't particularly like how every task check has some unique calculation for resolving it in CT, but overall I am a big fan of emphasizing the character's actual Skill ranks over smothering them in stat and gear bonuses.
